Justin Rao: We are six months down the year and many big Hindi films have not done as well as expected. Imtiaz Ali: When I joined the film industry, people were saying this is the worst time in the industry. And then we came in and said, ‘Arrey, we know. We should make Socha Na Tha. a Black Friday.’ There were around seven to 10 filmmakers who came in at that point of time. So, I think what is supposed to be a crisis ultimately turns out to be a great thing. I feel that this particular phase that we are in, where many movies have not done well, will turn out to be a very positive thing. Because we filmmakers will have to leave some old habits behind. It is disconcerting but unless we do that, no new creativity can spawn. Justin Rao: What are the old habits you have to leave? Imtiaz: It’s just that we make projects in a certain way. We feel that we need to have a certain mathematical equation, that there is an algorithm. But you can make two films with the same actors and director and the outcome financially won’t be the same. So there is always that X factor. And you’ve got to focus on that, which is really the essence of storytelling and filmmaking. Taapsee Pannu: I think when redundancy sets in, there needs to be a sort of restructuring. I think this is that phase, which happens after every five or six years, because you’re following the same formula and there comes a point where that formula stops working. So you feel it’s doomsday for the industry (but) it’s only time to restructure. Aakash Joshi: Are we heading for a time when the theatre will be for spectacles, star-driven films like Baahubali and Kalki and OTT platforms will be the space for more cerebral, experimental cinema like your Amar Singh Chamkila? Imtiaz: The honest answer is that we don’t know. As filmmakers, we are not here to conjecture. We are here to find an opportunity to tell the stories that we have to tell. And I feel that it will not be as simplistic. Almost the same things seem to be working on OTT as they do on the big screen, so how do you differentiate? Taapsee: I have a very simple calculation — some things are for a community viewing experience and some things are for watching one-to-one. So that’s how I have started remarketing. Aakash Joshi: Imtiaz, I’d like to take you to Chamkila. It is very rare to have a Dalit protagonist. When you’re having that discussion on the way to tell his story, how is that creative choice made for a very recent historical figure? Imtiaz: Yes, you have to go back to the reason why you’re making the film. Is it because he was Dalit? Was he unique because he was Dalit? If I stress on the fact again and again that he was a Dalit, am I doing service to the caste system, per se? Am I trying to also put him into a box which had actually afflicted him? I wanted the story to be free of something that he was not free of. Justin Rao: Taapsee, you are one of the most vocal female stars in the film industry. Is there a price to pay for speaking up? Taapsee: I’ve been cancelled multiple times. But as I said, I am still happy and proud of what I have said — good, bad, ugly — because I know I’ve not really targeted anyone. I’ll keep paying the price for being the person I am. I’m okay with that. Justin Rao: Taapsee, will you ever take up Animal or a film which doesn’t necessarily align with your gender politics, even if it gives you a tremendous scope to perform as an actor? Taapsee: Had I read the script of Animal, I would have said yes. I would want to do it but what I saw was a little strange — to hear cheers and whistles at certain moments. At certain points, I wouldn’t have liked the BGM (background music) to grow like that, where the audience is forced to cheer and clap. Aakash Joshi: How much responsibility do you now take on yourself as an artiste, as an actor, as a producer, for your film? Taapsee: I need to understand what my takeaway is as an audience. an Indian audience who watches Tere Naam starts copying the hairstyle of the hero. You can see the amount of influence we have on our audience. So let’s not run away from that. Imtiaz: I think films have a lot of power. Films for me are a medium of entertainment. There are other ways to tell society about social responsibility. But within this entertainment, if like in Sholay, there is some aspect of social responsibility and unity of a village, etc, that can come through, it’s excellent. For instance, Water for People is an organisation that I’ve recently been involved with. I feel if you give water and education to people, then they’ll do the rest for themselves on their own. So, if in some film, say like Swades, there is something that you can show, then you will inspire a lot of people. AUDIENCE QUESTIONS Imtiaz: The fact of the matter is that I make movies in Hindi because I don’t know any South Indian language fluently. So I’ll be unable to make a movie. Although I watch South Indian films and I have a lot of South Indian friends. Taapsee: I think, for me, at the beginning of my career I didn’t know any better and people did not probably think that they were on the same page as me. They also thought that I don’t know any better. So might as well make her look good and like a heroine. glam and be fancy. Then in Mumbai, I realised that there are way too many beautiful and glamorous women who are doing this brilliantly. If I have to compete with them, there is no way I’m gonna have a career. So I have to shift my focus to acting. And I did that. Imtiaz: This whole Sadda Haq kind of ‘I’ll change society’, maybe it was there in my very early days, but not to that extent, you know, and I don’t know where it comes from. This eagerness to break out of the social set up, I don’t know where it comes from, but I do see it in my films as well. QUICK QUESTIONS TO TAAPSEE PANNU One myth about the film industry most commonly assumed is true, but it isn’t. And one myth that is actually true. That there is no unity — it is true. And one myth that is not true is that actors aren’t educated and they choose films because they didn’t have an option. True or false — the nepotism debate has lost nuance. Yes, because people are using it, overusing it, at the wrong time, wrong instances, for wrong reasons. How many takes did you need on your first-ever film shot? On the first day, it happened in two takes but, generally, I would have taken some 20-25 odd takes to get my Tamil lines right. That was tough. Do you watch your own films? Do you enjoy them? Is there a performance you would like to go back and correct? I can find flaws in every film. I want to correct all of them. Box office numbers are real and not manipulated. No, of course they are manipulated, like everything else. Actors only wear rented clothes. Sometimes we wear our own clothes also. One female actor besides you who you think has pushed for feminism in story-telling. Vidya Balan. One thing that the South Indian film industry has that the Hindi film industry doesn’t. Hero worship. One thing that the Hindi film industry has, which the South Indian film industry doesn’t. To address the elephant in the room or topics that are a little awkward to talk about, especially regarding women. One thing about marriage which you have learnt after getting married. That it’s not that bad. QUICK QUESTIONS TO IMTIAZ ALI We’re going to list a few films of yours and you need to tell us what went wrong with them. Jab We Met Once I spoke to Shahid and Kareena, they said they were on but had dates only then. So I had to start the shoot only 21 days after that day. There was no pre-production, no script, no dialogue, no music and there was no location. That’s what went wrong. Tamasha The publicity of Tamasha went wrong. I think we somehow ended up projecting the wrong image of the film to the audience. Rockstar I think we got too involved with the story. We just became crazily emotional, for some reason, while filming. What’s the craziest, most random place where you have been pitched a script by a writer? While walking into an event like this. What do you say to your critics who say you keep going back to similar things in your films? I’ll take a moment and think about it. And I’ll figure out if they are right because nobody is completely wrong either. After all these years, how and where do you think these characters of yours would be — Geet and Aditya from Jab We Met. At a divorce lawyer’s. Jordan from Rockstar. He’d have his own company and he’d be completely fake and corrupt. Ved and Tara from Tamasha. I think they’d be doing shows together. You know, the ideal ending of Tamasha would have been if they hadn’t gotten together. What is the one space in Indian cinema that you think is still opaque? What are the genres and the themes that haven’t been tackled yet that need to be? I feel what really is exciting for me is a mixture of things. Very different and opposite genres should meet.
