Sushil Modi at Idea Exchange | ‘If Vajpayee had the majority like Modi, he would have definitely tried to end Article 370’

Senior BJP leader Sushil Modi at Idea Exchange. (Express photo by Abhinav Saha)

Harikishan Sharma: How has this Budget addressed the issues of unemployment and inflation?

Unemployment has been a major issue since Independence. Job creation is only going to happen through capital expenditure or manufacturing. As far as inflation goes, the US and Europe are facing the highest inflation in the last 40 years. Compared to that, the rate of inflation in India has gone below six per cent. Has there been any protest over inflation and price rise? Symbolic demonstration by the Opposition is another matter. People acknowledge that this government has controlled inflation.

Harikishan Sharma: Regarding the Hindenburg report about the Adani Group, the Opposition has demanded a probe by the Joint Parliamentary Committee (JPC) or a court-monitored committee. What do you think the government should do?

Instead of disrupting the Parliament session, the Opposition can speak during the President’s Address and during the Budget Session. The disruption of two days was not necessary. If you raise questions during the Debate Hour, you will get more news space but disruption will only result in a two-column news piece.

Liz Mathew: The BJP had disrupted the House for two sessions seeking a JPC into 2G allegations and finally the JPC was constituted. So, why is the government hesitant towards the Opposition’s demand for one? How does the BJP view the allegations against the Adani Group which appeared in the Hindenburg report?

These allegations have got nothing to do with the government. In 2G, it was the government that was involved. The government is not involved in this. The Congress, which has its government in Rajasthan, gave land to the Adani Group at a throwaway price. If the Opposition felt that the government had favoured the Adanis, why didn’t they raise it earlier? There’s no concrete evidence that the government has favoured the Adanis. There’s so much transparency today when compared to 25 years ago that no one can influence a bid. They want to portray the BJP as a party of ‘big people’ but they forget that it’s the BJP that has given free foodgrains to 80 crore people. These allegations can never stick. For a long time now, they have been demanding JPCs like it is child’s play. So don’t disrupt the House. Raise your issues, if you feel the government is not answering them, you can go to court. After all, people have gone to court over the BBC documentary and the Rafale deal.

Manoj CG: Even the Swadeshi Jagran Manch has said the new tax regime will affect savings. If even people in your parivar are not convinced, how will you convince the Opposition?

This shows how much democracy there is in the parivar. They have a right to an opinion. We will explain it to them… Our campaign committee is going across the country to clarify people’s doubts.

Vinay Jha: How realistic is the Budget this time?

Several people have said that this is an honest Budget. After corporate tax rates were reduced in 2019, we were hit by Covid. The investment cycle in the entire world has reduced. Why is tax reduced? So that more people are attracted to invest.

Rahul Sabharwal: Several people are speculating that this could be the last Budget with the old tax regime. Will this option exist going forward?

I think it will exist. No government makes sudden decisions… This time they have given more concessions for the new tax regime. The two schemes will run parallel for a few years and slowly one of them will become obsolete.

Senior BJP leader Sushil Modi at Idea Exchange. (Express photo by Abhinav Saha)

Manoj CG: Since you have the majority, if you want to bring a National Judicial Appointments Commission (NJAC) Bill, why doesn’t the BJP do it?

The government should bring in a new NJAC Bill. In the meantime, this method of procedure (MoP), which has not been finalised should be done with the government’s representative with the state and Union government in the collegium system. This is my personal view, I don’t know the party’s view… The executive and judiciary should together decide on what will be in the new NJAC Bill. Today, the executive doesn’t have any role — it should have one, be it veto or something else.

Nishant Shekhar: The BJP has no credible face in Bihar. How do you address this?

When the BJP won in Haryana, where was the face? Manohar Lal Khattar was brought in later. In UP, when the BJP won, where was the face? Yogi Adityanath was brought in later. In Maharashtra, it was a similar situation. It’s better to always have a credible face. But it isn’t necessary. We won elections even without any credible face in big states.

Liz Mathew: How do you think the BJP can handle the issue of no alliances or no major parties being with you?

There are different situations in different states. We will form alliances where they are necessary. We got the support of Lok Janshakti Party in Bihar’s bye-elections. There’s one more year for the general elections. In politics, changes happen rapidly… Except the Congress, there’s probably no party that has not formed an alliance with the BJP.

Liz Mathew: Last month, the Vice-President questioned the 1973 Kesavananda Bharati verdict that said the basic structure of the Constitution cannot be amended, and he said that’s not good for democracy. What is your comment on it?

In politics, an individual stand has no meaning. But I stand by the article published by The Indian Express (January 14) of LK Advani. I can’t comment more than that.

Harikishan Sharma: Your Standing Committee is considering bringing in a Uniform Civil Code (UCC). What is the status of t?

The mandate of our committee is the study of personal laws; we study the government reports. The UCC is not our mandate. It is about different personal laws. In this context, we had gone to Goa and studied the Portuguese Law adopted there. We also talked with stakeholders, members of the civil society, the advocate general and others. After studying, we found several good things that can be adopted in other places. Then we held a few meetings where nominees of Government of India were called to give their opinion on personal laws. Since then we haven’t had any more meetings.

Harikishan Sharma: Why is the BJP uncomfortable with the caste census and how does it play out in Bihar?

We are not uncomfortable, we have supported it. The Bihar Assembly had proposed it twice. The BJP was part of all-party delegations from Jharkhand and Bihar to meet the PM. We were also in favour of the socio-economic survey in 2010. The caste census was a decision taken by the BJP Bihar government, not Tejashwi Yadav…Telangana and Karnataka have already conducted caste census surveys. It is not the first time.

Harikishan Sharma: Do you think this kind of caste census will be conducted nationwide?

There are so many castes and sub-castes — 40 types of Brahmins or 70 types of Yadavs. That’s why the Central government said that if a state wants to do a caste survey, then it’s fine.

Nishant Shekhar: In the recent BJP national meeting, Narendra Modi appealed to the members to not make senseless remarks against film stars and celebrities. Is there no discipline within the party?

It’s such a big party, a few might have said something. This is not the first time Modi has warned (the members). He said that we are doing so much work, which should be discussed. Otherwise, people are distracted by other discussions.

Harikishan Sharma: What’s wrong with the communication between the government and students? We saw that issue when the BBC documentary was screened at different campuses, we saw it at JNU.

Youths and students are with us. How many are with the Congress? SFI is nowhere other than JNU. Our ideological strength is increasing in colleges. Nothing major has happened in the JNU in the last few years, just minor instances. The majority of the youths are attracted to the BJP.

Liz Mathew: Can we expect a Women’s Reservation Bill before 2024?

The BJP has always supported discussions around the Women’s Reservation Bill. This time in the Rajya Sabha, the number of women members from the BJP has increased. In every meeting, we emphasise the representation of women in the party and give them tickets. Their ability to win is 90 per cent when compared to men.

Harikishan Sharma: You are a moderate face of the BJP but in its nine years of being at the Centre, the BJP seems to be taking a hard-line, rigid approach instead of a centrist and moderate approach on ideological issues. What do you have to say?

Ideological issues were there from the times of Syama Prasad Mukherjee to Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Advani ji but we didn’t have the majority, we had pressures from our alliances. But today, the BJP is in power. If it was in Vajpayee’s hands, if he had the majority like Narendra Modi ji, he would have definitely tried to end Article 370. There are some issues that we cannot compromise on. For example, the Uniform Civil Code is not forced but can’t we agree on some things? Can we not have a common ground when it comes to polygamy, infidelity or divorce? It’s not a question of hard or moderate. We stand for the issues that we believe in.

Harikishan Sharma: Are Kashi and Mathura also on your agenda?

Kashi and Mathura are not yet on the BJP’s agenda. What’s happening in the court is not BJP sponsored.

Harikishan Sharma: Do you stand by the Places of Worship (Special Provisions) Act?

In this regard, the Government of India (GoI) has not taken a stand in court. Let the GoI take a stand on this issue. But if you ask me personally, I was in Benares a week ago and I went to Kashi Vishwanath mandir. Indore’s Queen Ahilyabai Holkar renovated close to 50 temples, including the Bodhgaya Temple and the Kashi Vishwanath Temple. Similarly, the way the Kashi Vishwanath Temple has been renovated, people will remember Modi for another 1,000 years. The masjid there reminds people… It feels as if someone has forcefully entered your area or encroached on it. Personally, I feel Muslims should come forward… Nothing should be done forcefully.

Harikishan Sharma: What are the biggest challenges that you see in BJP getting another term in 2024?

Every election has its own challenges. We believe in Modi’s popularity and the work that he has done for the poor and the middle class. BJP’s network too, is fantastic. There’s a great effort to play Mandal politics in Bihar, especially by the RJD. Why did they raise the issue of Ramcharitramanas and why aren’t they still withdrawing it? There was a time when Mandal was with Lalu Prasad Yadav or Akhilesh Yadav and kamandal (water pot used by monks) was with the BJP. Today, Mandal and kamandal are both with the BJP… We have a strong following from that section (of OBCs and SCs).

Monojit Majumdar: The BJP leaders of Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Madhya Pradesh and Assam use the word ‘bulldozer’, which has come to symbolise a strong and determined administration. We haven’t heard such a word from Sushil Modi in Bihar. Would you comment on this?

I had recently been to UP. People are very happy with Yogi Adityanath because he improved the law and order in the state. Whether someone uses a bulldozer or not is another issue… Nitish Kumar was popular in his earlier days for the same reason.

Vandita Mishra: You were in the government when Nitish Kumar’s stature grew due to his handling of the law-and-order situation. That technique was very different — it didn’t have a bulldozer. Don’t you think that technique was right or better?

Different people can have different techniques. How do you deal with Naxalites? One way is to launch a harsh and bitter plan of action against them. The other is to conduct a covert operation. It is difficult to say which technique will work because various leaders tackle things in their own way.

Deeptiman Tiwary: Do you think Nitish Kumar has any other trick under his sleeve for his future?

If I have to advise him on something, it would be to exit gracefully. Every leader has their time even if he does good work. It is as if you repeatedly watch the same film; you will get bored. Kumar’s aura is over. We knew this even when he was with us. We also had desperation, we needed his support and there was a payoff, too. Our vote bank was intact. In 2010, we did three surveys of his popularity graph and Amit Shah showed me that Kumar’s popularity has gone down. We told their workers to show their leader what the surveys revealed but a politician doesn’t easily accept it… I have closely worked with him and know all his virtues and feel bad for him because he cannot understand.

Harikishan Sharma: Maharashtra Deputy CM Devendra Fadnavis, signalled that he will rethink the pension scheme. What does the BJP think of this issue?

We are against the rewri culture. The economy in the states (that have the old pension scheme) may collapse after 15-20 years. This issue needs careful thought through because we are putting a burden on future generations. One takes a loan today and leaves it to the grandson to repay it. Will the grandson be able to repay it? This is my personal opinion; it should not be enforced. But this is not the party’s stand… There is a danger that it may result in a situation similar to Sri Lanka. A decision should not be taken just for votes.