‘Dil ke rishte khulenge to trade chalegaa na bhai’

• To phir koyi surat banaiyye jisse jaldi se aapka udhar jana sambhav ho (Then create a situation which makes it possible for you to go there soon).

Mere khyal se haalaat ka takaaza yeh hai ki aana pade. Aur ab bhi reservations nahi hongi Insha-Allah (I think the circumstances will call for a visit. And there will be no reservations, God willing). Rest assured.

• Prime Minister Vajpayee 1999 mein Lahore aaye. Log kahte hain ki yeh unka teesra effort hai. Lekin jahan tak meri yaad jaati hai, yeh unka chautha effort hai. Kyonki woh, as foreign minister, yahan aaye thhe 1978 mein. Tab woh Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, yahan tak ki Khyber Pass tak gaye thhe. Abhi unko yahan bulayenge to apne sube mein bulaiyyega. Koyi achhi si jagah …kaun si jagah hai maslan? (In 1999, Vajpayee came to Lahore. People say this is his third effort. But as far as I remember, this is his fourth effort. Because, as foreign minister, in 1978 he had visited Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi and went as far as the Khyber Pass. Now if you invite him, what will be the venue?

Jin subon ko unhone nahi dekha preference wahi hona chaahiye. Aur jaane nasib mera usi sube se taalluk hai, Baluchistan se. (Preference will be given to the places which he hasn’t seen. And coincidentally I belong to the same area which he hasn’t seen — Baluchistan.)

• Sahab yeh suicide bombs on a vicious scale in Saudi Arabia, in Morocco. I mean this is a hopeless scenario. Don’t you think?

Terrorism, anywhere, in any part of world is never appreciated or supported by anybody. Unfortunately Pakistan itself and these countries that you have mentioned, they have been victims of terrorism. I think it is very inhuman to destroy humanity and human rights. So whenever it takes place, it is never appreciated, we have never done it. India has never done it. No one appreciates that. But I think it’s a sick mind which leads people and generations…into that direction.

• In this peace initiative, Pakistani public opinion has to be taken into account. And I suspect that Kashmir is one of the subjects to be discussed. Indian public opinion has become very sensitive to this term ‘‘cross-border terrorism’’. Usme kya jaadoo karenge aap (What magic will you work on that)?

I don’t have any jaadoo ki chhadi (magic wand) as you call it. But I think niyat (motive) and erada (intention) one develops to go towards a decision at any level… It has to be first of all mentally and morally acceptable to the parties concerned. Only then you can come towards a decision. The people of India and Pakistan have suffered a lot. It’s time the governments of both the countries realise and take steps… that what do we do for the future generations.

We have already two generations in this. We will not want any more generations to destroy it. And in that concept my assessment is that without going into any jadugari as you call it, I think that the self-reliance, the public mandate, the wish of the people, the desire of the nation, the demand of the circumstances and the conditions will compel us, both the countries, to come to terms in very respectable and honorable ways to decide each and every issue including, of course, the core issue of Kashmir.

This is what had to come about and I think we have realised it and India has realised it. That is why we have been pursuing dialogue. Let’s sit across the table. The time of war is over. You can’t fight. You can’t destroy nations. You can’t destroy governmental power anywhere, whether in India or Pakistan…

• You are right. It’s a long border between India and Pakistan. And everything one understands cannot be controlled. Lekin jahan tak aapke bas mein hai, wahan tak agar zara bhi indication mile ki sahab aap rein-in kar rahe hain unko, to yeh raaste khul jayenge aur baat aage badh jayegi. (If there is the slightest indication that you are trying to rein them in, the road will open and the talks will move forward.)

Baat yeh hai ki Pakistan ne koshish ki hai. Ek tehreek chalti hai jo hamare purview se bahar hai. Uspe hum logon ko kayam karne ki koshish kar sakte hain. Samjhaane ki koshish kar saakte hain. Unpar hamara control nahi hai. Woh already aapke hisse me hain (Pakistan has made efforts. But a movement is on which is outside our purview. We can try to rein them in, make them understand. We don’t have control over them. They are already in your area)…we must realise whose responsibility is what and once we earnestly and honestly realise this, only after that things will start falling in the right places. But rest assured I have said before, I am saying this today we have never encouraged these things. We will keep on discouraging.

We have done our best but of course we have limited resources. You have much more available resources so in that context I would expect India to be more firm on their borders and give us a chance so we can be a helping hand in the betterment of humanity. This is definitely our policy. My President has been saying it very openly. I have been saying it very openly since I have taken over in the last six months. Let there be no doubts about it at all. I say what I feel… God forbid if there is a fault in Pakistan I will say yes. (When) we say there is no fault, one must believe us. There is no question of giving double-edged or double-faced statements. I deny it and this is what I have to say.

• Vajpayee, after his speech in Srinagar and his statement in Parliament, has said several times that Iraq is a kind of warning and that we all must harmonise our differences… What impact did that speech have on you?

We all appreciated Vajpayee’s statement. Unfortunately there were one or two statements on the Indian and Pakistani side — that pre-emptive measures should be taken against Pakistan and we said they should have been taken against India. That was of course tit for tat. But Vajpayee’s statement… yes, I appreciated that and he is a very old statesmen and has seen life. He is a politician and I think what he has said is what I said initially.

Because we have to see in the other direction. Yesterday, it was Afghanistan. Today, it is Iraq. What is tomorrow? So these things one can only envisage, feel and try to secure safety for oneself and the only safety valve is that we have very good relations with the neighboring countries. Try to be one compact bloc as a matter of fact. A situation where no one dare touches you. Of course with over a billion and a quarter of population in this region, I think it is difficult for others to look towards us provided we stand as one.

• Next step kya hai? Aap kya suggest karenge? Aapko kya scenario dikhai de raha hai? (What is the next step? What would you suggest? What scenario do you see?)

Maine yahi arz kiya hai ki (What I have said is that) we have to stand on our feet and be seen as a compact bloc, then there are many things which have to be, as they say, put under the carpet. One must see eye to eye. One must have a sense and feeling that we stand together as far as the region is concerned. And that can be done only if we are at good relations with each other. Insha Allah (God willing) we will be. Let me say I am very confident. Insha Allah things will work out.

• Is that the impression you got in those ten minutes in your talk with Vajpayee?

This is my sixth sense that tells me. Whenever I am in difficulty I turn towards God, Allah, and seek guidance and of course for the betterment of my country and the betterment of humanity. These are things and we have to… both the countries look in the same direction and only then we can see what is going to come towards us. We can’t afford to see in different directions. Whether it is friendship… of course you have friendship with Israel.

We don’t mind it. That is your option. We have friendship with China, no problem. It’s a new development in any case. And there are Americans, British, and Europeans. But in our concept, to avoid these repercussions we have to look in one solid direction. This is what is required and this can only happens when there is peace and harmony and common views as far as India and Pakistan are concerned.

• Solid direction of economic togetherness. Economic growth?

Solid direction means so many things.

• Trade ke jo rishte hain, unko kholiye (Open the trade relations).

Dil ke rishte khulenge to trade chalegaa na bhai. Trade to humne pehle bhi keh diya hai (If we open our hearts to each other, trade will carry on). We will go for more trade with India. I assure you. We will go for more sports ties with India. The flights. These are issues. They are not basic principles. The basic principles are how we and India can solidly stand together.

• We have chosen one of our finest IFS officers as the High Commissioner to Islamabad. Who is your man?

Well, only last night I cleared the file. We are also going to give a very good man. Probably it will be Riaz Mohammed Khan. Presently he is in Beijing. It is a strange coincidence. Menon was in Beijing and he is coming to Pakistan and Riaz Khan is my ambassador in Beijing and Insha Allah I am sending him to Delhi.

• Aapko kya lag raha hai? Is issue par jo aap aage badh rahe hain? Usme kya consensus hai? (What do you think. Will you have consensus on this issue on which you’re moving forward?)

We are all one. There is no difference on our India policy, no difference whatsoever.

• SAARC ki koi dates tai ho rahi hain (Have any dates been fixed for SAARC)?

Aap Vajpayee Saheb se haan karaa dein, participation ki dates hum aapko de denge. Pehle bhi humne di thi. Vajpayee sahab ne agree nahin kiya. Abhi hum unse guzarish karenge ki woh consent de dein. Hum SAARC ki meeting bula lenge. (You get Vajpayee to give his nod, we’ll give you the dates for participation. We had given it before also. But Vajapayee didn’t agree. Now we request him to give his consent. We’ll call the SAARC meeting.)

— Courtesy: Worldview India