‘Greg’s principles are pretty basic, in terms of what he wants… John was methodical (but) very nervous’

• And the selectors?

And the selectors. It’s the selectors’ decision. If the selectors feel that, you know, we need to drop X, Y, or Z.

• Selectors and the coach also. It’s very cheap of them to blame the senior stars alone. They had the option of not picking them.

Yes, I think at the end of the day, everybody is responsible. Like I said, it needs to be a collective responsibility rather than putting the blame on a particular individual. It could be the captain, it could be the coach or it could be the senior players. And mentioning certain senior players, it could be anyone. But then at the end of the day, they collectively, as a team, as a unit, we have failed. Each one, it could be anyone who hasn’t actually participated in the tournament. We need to rationalise, sit down and see the way forward.

• Tell me, Anil, you have seen a whole range of coach-captain combinations. You started with Bishan, Wadekar-Azhar, Sachin-Gaekwad, Ganguly-John Wright, Greg Chappell-Dravid. Give us your analysis of how this thing has evolved.

You know, I think cricket has changed over the years. Since I made my debut in 1990 to what it is now, one-day cricket definitely has changed. Even Test cricket, the way people approach it.

• Four hundred in a day, and people score 500 and lose.

Correct. So things have changed. Wickets are a lot flatter now but, personally, I did enjoy the success when Azhar and Ajit Wadekar were in charge. Initially in my career, it was very important for me to be successful and at that point of time, I laid the foundation for a successful career. And over the years, people have had different views of tackling the team and I thought that initially when John came in as the first foreign coach, it was tough for him to understand the Indian psyche. The early phase of his coaching, he did fantastically in those four years. It’s hard to survive as a coach in India.

• Also, when almost every Indian cricketer is a bigger star than you…

Yes, invariably people tend to question how much cricket you have actually played as a coach to come and give suggestions. I think it was needed at that point of time.

• But then, there was this sense that he felt undermined towards his last year.

That’s again, you know, when results don’t go your way and…

• There’s a use-by date…

When somebody leaves the organisation, there’ll always be certain memories which you would not like to take and would like to change but then that’s part of (being) a team.

• Compare John and Greg.

Both are very different.

• So how are they different?

Like you just mentioned, Greg obviously wants to do it boldly and comes out to the media a lot more that John ever did and…

• Future Walk the Talk.

So you still have Greg on your…

• Greg too. But John after the Pakistan series.

So yes, both were different and it’s just that when you lose or when you win things tend to…

• Give us some instance, anecdotes, of how the two are different…

Greg’s principles are pretty basic, in terms of what he wants the batsmen and bowlers to do. John was very methodical, in terms of his preparations, very nervous. He was probably more nervous than the players and we sometimes had to keep John away from the dressing room to ensure that his nervous energy does not reflect on the players. We wanted to keep him away.

• And Greg?

Greg, when he watched the game, you could never sense whether he was nervous. That way he was very cool.

• Was he tougher on players? Were players scared of him?

If you look at the two years when Greg Chappell has been the coach, I have been with the team on Test tours mostly.

• One year and seven and-a-half months.

Okay, to be precise. But I have been with the team only on Test tours, except the first one in Sri Lanka and now the World Cup, so I haven’t had the interaction.

• You have interactions with your fellow players. There’s this feeling that people have felt more insecure under him.

Probably because of the way, his approach. That’s his style. Once the meeting happens, things will obviously be a lot clearer. There has been a lot of speculation. Like you said, the media, and, if you realise, when John was with the Indian team, there was not so much of the media around as well and so many channels. Focus on the Indian cricket team has increased in the last two years or so. That probably has also, to a certain extent, played a role.

• But do you think Greg tried to use the media as a force-multiplier? Either for himself or for the team or to achieve his ends vis-a-vis the team?

It’s the media which will probably answer this question.

• Media will take what it gets.

That’s true, but again…

• You get a turning wicket, you will make use of it, won’t you?

Any opportunity, I will. But I definitely won’t go and ensure that I get a turning wicket. That’s not how I play my cricket. So I hope that answers your question. I won’t really go and ask for a turning wicket. If I go and see a turning wicket, I go and exploit it.

• So you have seen a whole bunch of coaches. You are older than Sachin, though Sachin made his debut earlier than you. Where do you stand on this Indian coach vs foreign coach debate? You are now a senior citizen, a very young senior citizen, so talk like that.

At the end of the day, you need to pick the best possible coach. If it’s an Indian, we should go for an Indian, if it’s a foreigner — I think at this point we need to sit down and identify, make a list and put a name to that.

• We see an interesting phenomenon. We see almost no Indian coach being approached from abroad. Australian coaches are in demand. And the other thing, quite connected to that, we see no Indian on the ICC lead panel of umpires as well. So there seems to be a certain view that former Indian cricketers don’t quite measure up, except in commentary rooms.

This I think I will not be able to answer… on behalf of somebody else… as to what they need to do once they give up their cricket. Like you said, when you see the elite panel of umpires and you don’t have an umpire there…

• And two Pakistanis.

And two Pakistanis. The only representative was…

• Venkat

And in the referees, there is Javagal Srinath. He is a part of the referee panel. He is actually the only official representative from India. And very few past cricketers take up coaching of state teams.

• Right, so to suddenly claim the right to coach the Indian team.

It all depends on how…

• Have you seen more politics in the team when there are Indian coaches?

I don’t understand politics. That’s something which I have never understood.

• Well, cross-currents, tensions, divisions…

Like I said, it’s up to the individual to see how he sees these cross-currents, or divisions or whatever. Again I’ll go back to that. Every organisation has cross-currents, undercurrents. I always believe that once I go out on the field all this is taken away from my mind. Even when I was part of the squad and not actually playing, you feel hurt but that has never been this questioning that he was hurt that’s why he pulled this fellow’s leg and I have never believed that it’s the way forward. In a team game, you need to appreciate the team and put that above yourself.

• Anil, if I take you back to where we started — bowling. You know, unfortunately, we are doing this in the backdrop of the World Cup. I would have loved to go on talking about your bowling. Aren’t we also guilty in India of not building up bowlers? Shane Warne is built into this mythical figure by the Australians. Then everybody takes the queue. Muralitharan is built like that. Brett Lee is built. Shane Bond is built. Pakistan’s new bowler comes in and Imran Khan starts saying he is a world-beater, watch him. Whether it’s Sami, Shoaib Akhtar, Danish Kaneria. Look at Shoaib Akhtar’s record. He hasn’t won that many matches. What’s wrong with our system, we never build a bowler?

We need to appreciate Indians.

• We build batsmen. We never build bowlers.

That’s what I am saying. As Indians, we need to appreciate our own players, our own teammates rather than looking at… we don’t have an Akram, or a Dennis Lillee to win matches. Unless you support the bowlers you have and encourage them and give them strength, how are they going to get the confidence?

• We are too batsman-focused?

Yeah, we are definitely batsman-centric. And the bowling fraternity definitely needs to get that kind of support. So I can hope of start building that fraternity. It’s important that bowlers get their due.

• You think this is a time for renewal of Indian cricket, the kind we saw in 1970-71 and 1989. A sort of dusting of the cupboard and creation of a new team around an older core?

Yes, I think something definitely good will come out of the whole episode and that’s why I said, we need to sit down and look at it in the long term. And results won’t happen. Everything is result-oriented. We don’t really lose one game and then totally change.

• But if you lose more, sponsorships will dry up. Money will also dry up.

It will. At the end of the day, everything is result-oriented but we need to give a collective view of what we have and what resources we have in terms of talent. And I don’t think there’s a dearth of talent. It’s important to encourage talent.

• In fact, this has been the most consistent team in terms of composition. We have more players from the last World Cup than any other team in this World Cup.

Definitely.

• Which is not a good commentary either on India’s talent pool or on our selection.

No, I don’t think so. If you look at Australia, they had the same kind of…

• But they have many new people on whom the team now depends. Hogg…

Hogg was part of the last World Cup as well. After 18 years, if you are still looking at the key players to go out there and they win the game, then it’s not healthy.

• Anil, I can’t let you go away. We have limited time. I can always ask what your target is and you will say I never set targets. I wish you get 600 and beyond. I think Indian cricket is much more a prisoner to a batsman mindset and we appreciate two sixes much more than six wickets. But if you were to bowl at the most experienced batting grades today — Sachin, Sehwag, Sourav, Rahul — what will you bowl to each one to get them out?

I will have to ensure that I persevere and then I will challenge them. I am sure Sachin loves a challenge and I am unfortunate that I only have to bowl to these guys in the nets.

• That’s why Sachin gets out so often when you bowl outside the leg stump.

I have got him out a couple of times while playing against him. Rahul, I have not had the opportunity because he plays for the same team.

• So what would you bowl at Rahul?

No, I did get him out at slip. So that is something I enjoyed when we played in the county scene. Basically wear him down.

• Because he wears the bowler down?

I wear the batsman down. As long as I have strength to…

• Sourav?

Sourav, put pressure and obviously he likes to go over the top, so try and get him out like that. That’s a challenge again.

• You need a good long on.

You need somebody on the boundary lines.

• And Sehwag?

You need to keep him down, ensure that you don’t give him too many boundaries early. Eventually, a bowler has the last laugh. Well, he doesn’t get the credit.

• Laxman? We can’t leave out Laxman.

Laxman, as well. It’s tough to bowl to someone like Laxman. You bowl on the off stump, he hits you through mid-wicket. So, you need to keep him quiet. He likes the ball to come on to the bat, so try and keep changing the pace. I got him out a couple of times when I played against him when Karnataka played Hyderabad.

• Give me the bowler’s eye view. It’s been the whole panoply of great Indian batsmen over more than two decades. Rank the top five.

I will definitely rank, not in any particular order, Rahul Dravid, Sachin Tendulkar, I didn’t play against or with GR Vishwanath, but I’ll definitely rank him. Sunil Gavaskar and Laxman.

• Well Anil, all the best for the new phase in your career. Hope we can persuade you back in one-day cricket someday. Whichever mode of cricket you choose, I bet you will have the last laugh. And 600 is not far.

Thank you. And the Test hundred, that’s something I am sure…

• Absolutely, you came very close to it once.

Probably that’s when people will stand up and recognise the bowling ability in me.

• The way our top order is, you might get a one-day 100, so come back as a batsman.

No, I don’t think I stand that chance but I’ll definitely try and enjoy my cricket from now on and ensure that whatever opportunities and chances that I do get, we’ll be able to perform as a team and ensure that we get victories.

• Keep smiling and keep picking up wickets. And all the best to your family.

Thank you.

(Concluded)