‘I do believe in Mulayam Singhji, I do believe in Amarji…They are people who stand by you’

• We stand under what? I think…

The Wisdom Tree.

• Why, is there a history to it?

Well, I think it started ages ago, when it was a studio. And they had to sort out certain things about the production. And the owner, the producer, the director were sitting under the tree and thought of some solution. Since then, this is the Wisdom Tree. I got my wisdom from here (laughs).

• That’s the difference that your generation made. Until then, people just came to Bombay with stars in their eyes and hoped to become stars. And then three or four streams of graduates came from here. And you, of course, were one of the most famous. It was a conscious career choice?

Well, not really. You know, I…sort of…being a trained actor interested me. I thought it was a very normal thing. I didn’t realise that something like this existed till my father got it to my notice, and when I got the opportunity, I applied for it.

• Your father was a well-known journalist. We all read his coverage of the dacoit problem in Chambal.

In Chambal, yes. And when I applied…I was very curious. And fortunately, I got selected. I passed the audition test, the screen test and came in here. And I was able to get a scholarship within three months.

• But even then, there was a lot of scepticism. How can you study to become a film star?

…but you know once you come in and you go through the course, you enjoy it so much, you are so involved, and they keep you so busy.

• That was the phase when people like you came in with formal film education. And now we have stars coming out of the world of modelling, the world of beauty contests.

Yes, kind of semi-formal education.

• That’s not semi-formal education. That’s not acting.

That’s not acting. That’s being camera-friendly, getting used to the camera.

• But when you see these actors today, the stars today who come from the world of modelling, do you sometimes wish they had a little more formal…I’m not saying talent, I’m not saying acting talent…at least acting training?

I think when we entered the film industry, good-looking, glamorous or a certain kind of persona was necessary. And today I do feel that the younger generation is a lot more aware. I don’t know about the lot more talented, but a lot more aware than we were. You know, I mean, without a training.

• They know what to do with their money, better…

No, I think, even with their work. I mean today they are all prepared. They know what looks good and what looks nice. They know how to sing, they know how to dance. You know there is a very big joke. A producer has some parents coming to, sort of, request their child to be an actor. And he said, ‘To phir aapke bete institute se hain ya phir NSD se hain?’ To phir unhonne kaha, ‘Nahin saahib, lekin dancing, horse-riding, fighting, kungfu bahut achcha kar lete hain. Aur modelling bhi aati hai.’ To producer ne poocha, ‘Ye sab kaafi hai actor banne ke liye?’ To unhonne kaha, ‘Mujhe lagta hai acting seekh jaayenge.’

Aur ab saare channels are doing talent hunt. They are going from town to town…

• We will come to politics later. But tell me your own decision. You came into cinema, you made such a huge impact. And then you took a long sabbatical. And now you have come back.

Well, I think after I got married…First of all, I was bored. I was fed up.

• You were bored.

Yes. Bored and fed up because nothing new was coming my way. I had done everything that one could at that time, played all kinds of roles. Then I got married, I had children. It was a more exciting life. So, I think, acting went for a toss…

• It wasn’t to avoid what people may describe as the Abhimaan syndrome? The same happening in real life what was portrayed in that film. They are both talented…and they start competing…in their mind.

No, no.

• You never had that apprehension?

No, no, no, these things don’t bother me. You know, I don’t know, but I’ve never planned things in life. Things have just happened and I’ve just reacted and I’ve just taken it and it has just carried on.

• And why the return now?

Because the kids are grown up.

• I’m not complaining.

No, no, I know. You’re inquisitive. (Laughs) Yes, you want to know. That’s fine.

• I really enjoyed watching the Hazaar Chaurasi… theme. I had differences with it, but it was a terrific film.

Thank you. I enjoyed working in the film. Ah…why did I come back? Well, you know what happened is my daughter got married. My son was back home from studies, he wanted to get into cinema, my husband was busy working. And I had a lot of spare time. And, I think, when a creative person gets that space, what you feel naturally towards just comes back to you. And it just came back. And I’ve been very lucky, I mean. I don’t know how suddenly out of the blue, Govind said I have this film, and would you act in it?

• Hazaar Chaurasi…?

Hazaar Chaurasi…. It just started.

• And then Kal Ho Na Ho?

Kabhie Khushi Kabhie Gham and then Kal Ho Na Ho.

• In fact, one thing some of your old fans noticed was that perhaps you wore trousers for the very first time.

No.

• Maybe Jawani Diwani …

Yeah, Jawani Diwani, Dil Diwana, Samadhi, a little bit of Phagun.

• If I can take you to the home front…Tell me who’s the boss. Who wears the pants at home?

Amit. Thank God (laughs).

• That was said with great…so quickly.

Absolutely. I’m so clear about it. And I feel life’s about it. I think, he’s a man, he should be the man; I’m a woman, I should be the woman. He has his importance, he has his department.

• No, but being a woman doesn’t mean that you automatically treat…

I would feel it impossible to function without him and I think he would find it impossible to function without me. So, you know, we have our roles and I think…

• But I believe your son listens to you. He’s a mama’s boy.

Ahhh…no.

• You have to tell him where to go left, where to go right.

No he doesn’t, he doesn’t. Children are clever. They know this suits me more so today I listen to my dad and this suits me more so I listen to my mom.

• And now you are entering politics. I know that you were very unhappy when your husband joined politics.

No, I was not unhappy because he joined politics. I never thought that he was going to get into active politics. I thought he was going to do work…do things for people, do things for Allahabad. That excited me. I think, I felt, both of us in fact felt that after the 1982 episodes, there was so much love, so much warmth from people. That was the way of doing fine things for people.

• You mean his injury?

Right. That was the way of returning…or sort of…you know you can never thank people enough for what they’ve done…

• So stepping into politics was because of that, or was it because of a call from a friend?

No, of course, a call from an old friend. I mean he just didn’t go and start saying that I want to do something. Definitely a call from an old friend. But it was an opportunity. Opportunity comes to you. It’s up to you. You have to take it and…

• So maybe you would have been happier if he had been in the Rajya Sabha, let active politics alone?

I would have been happier if he had not left.

• Oh…if he had stayed on in politics?

I don’t know about politics, Shekhar…

• I’m not saying it’s a wrong thing.

No, I would have been happier if he had stayed on and had done what he did after leaving. I mean, it was one point where I disagreed with him completely. And I said you have to fight and you have to clear your name, stay on and do it. And he said, no my temperament is different, I can’t do it.

• And what is it that he did after leaving that you didn’t like him doing?

No, what he did afterwards was fantastic. He cleared his name, he fought.

• But he went into a shell.

No, he did not go into a shell. He was always a person who was in a shell.

• Never in a cocoon?

No (laughs), but he did what he had to. I felt he could have done…but, you know, he felt he could not handle politics.

• But you would rather he had stayed on there.

And fought.

• And fought.

He fought, stayed…

• From outside?

From outside.

• But if he had stayed on and fought, maybe we would not have seen him back as an actor. Maybe he would have become a full-time politician.

Not necessarily.

• Maybe, you would think.

Maybe. I think Jo hota hai ache ke liye hota hai (Whatever happens happens for the best).

• So would you be happier if he came back to public life now?

No, I don’t think so. He’s been very, very unhappy. I mean it’s very strange that he’s basically very shy, he’s a loner. And for him to be in a profession where you have to exhibit your talent and you know…

• So maybe when it comes to public life, you are the one in front.

Not really.

• Why, why your decision?

My decision because firstly, I saw Amar Singhji, he is a very, very close friend, like a family member.

• But you didn’t do it just because your friend told you so. It was a conscious decision.

No, of course I knew I could help him. And I knew what he felt, how he felt and I realise that he was very alone, he needed that support. And he needed people…

• Amar Singh is never alone. He always has a baraat with him on his side.

No, that’s a different kind of a baraat. But you know you need that strength and you need like-minded people. Followers are different from…

• Right. From comrades.

From comrades.

• So what do we see you doing? I know that you are campaigning for the Samajwadi Party.

Yes, of course, because I’ve been nominated and I think it’s my duty to do that.

• So you are not just somebody who just sits…

I will not. I have been sitting quietly…not very quietly…but definitely not.

• So we see you active in politics, speaking for your party, trying to get votes?

Well, definitely speaking for my party. Because I do believe in Mulayam Singhji, I do believe in Amar Singhji. I’ve seen them, as people…they are people who stand by you. They are people who want to do things.

• And try to build public opinion for their politics.

Yes, definitely. But if I don’t like something, I will say it.

• You have a genuinely multi-role life. Wife, mother, grandmother, politician, artiste…

I thank God. God has been very kind.

• Conscience-keeper?

Well, my own.

• And the family’s. What is it that will get priority now?

My grandchildren…I don’t even have to think about it, they get priority.

• Do you have to worry about your husband’s career or your son’s career?

No I don’t worry about my husband’s career. I worry about his health. My son’s career I’m very happy with. He’s been through struggle and I think the struggle is paying. He has done it on his own and I’m proud. I’m very, very proud. And I feel he is improving every day. I’m not worried about my husband’s career at all.

• In fact there are many who are now saying that his pairing with Rani Mukherjee in Yuva reminds them a lot of some of your and Amit’s performances .

I don’t think so. They are very different…You know the whole pace has changed. The rhythm of acting is different…

• I mean could we today have a film with you and Sanjeev Kumar? You had such classic performances.

But there have to be classic stories. Classic roles. You know you can’t do a performance if you don’t have a role.

• But will today’s market take that thing, with that intensity?

Yes, but done differently, done with today’s techniques, today’s timing, today’s…

• Packaging?

Packaging, and done with today’s thinking. You have to modernise the whole thing.

• You had some of your finest performances with Sanjeev Kumar.

I enjoyed working with him. It was a pleasure. When you work with artistes who understand…

• He was very different.

Yes. Well, I worked with him and I worked with Amitabh, my husband. Most of my films are with both of them. And I worked with a lot of new actors at that time. But I think, when I came in, I thought I will work with good workers, I will work in good stories. To me that was more important than a good role. You know the entire film was good. And that is the reason I did films like Chupke Chupke or Sholay.

• Sholay, that one frame of you. It’s been printed on all our memory.

Oh, well (laughs).

• I think that three seconds on screen left such an impact.

It was beautifully written. Saleem-Javed had that.

• Who are your favourite women these days in cinema?

Oh, very difficult. Rani, Tabu, Preity for certain roles. I don’t even recall the names.

• Who do you think comes sort of closest to your style?

I don’t know. I think it is going to be a combination of Rani and Preity because Preity with lighter roles and Rani with…I mean structure-wise, not anything else.

• And among the men?

Oh, I have many. I think Akshaye Khanna is a fantastic actor. Very talented.

• Underrated?

Yes, because his performance is not something that comes straight on the face. Very natural. He’s a very talented boy. Then who else? There are so many of them.

• You must be happy also that now your son has got a good hit.

Well, I think one hit is not good enough. But I’m happy that he is improving as an actor, more than hits. And if you are a good actor, if you get your act together, if you know grammar, you can’t be left behind.

• When you live in a universe where everything breathes cinema, stardom, is it possible to insulate your life from it?

Well, I don’t know. You’ve met Amit, you’ve met me, you’ve met my son. You tell me. We do. We don’t discuss cinema at home. In fact, now because Abhishek is in films, sometimes when he discusses a certain role, we discuss cinema on the dining table. Otherwise we’ve never discussed cinema.

• So what do you discuss on the dining table?

Everything. Everything. Cricket…

• Politics?

Politics.

• It’s also tough to be married to a fellow film star, and that too someone like Amitabh…

Oh, I think it’s easier, because I would have found it very difficult if I had not married a film star.

• Why so?

Because it’s easy for me to understand a man who is in the same profession.

• So how did you handle the phase when film magazines were full of Amitabh’s hits, his relationships?

But you know this is something that happens with every actor. Magazines have to do what they have to do. And it’s sad that they have to do it to sell their magazines. It is a little insensitive, but being an actor myself I think it was easy for me to understand.

• Because his name was linked to one person.

With everyone.

• But particularly with one person.

(Laughs.) No, but that because maybe it suited everyone to do that. But his name was linked to every heroine he worked with…

• Right. But your acting in Silsila was a way of putting a stop to those rumours?

No. I think Silsila was just a creative decision.

• It was not a statement?

No. I think people find it interesting. They would like to believe that it was, but actually it wasn’t.

• But you never saw the need to make a statement?

Why? What was the need?

• You never felt pressured at that time?

No, not at all.

• And you don’t feel pressured now because that question goes on all the time?

(Laughs) Well, it is a personal choice.

• Tell me, did you and Amitabh ever talk about this, even as a joke? Did he say something that you remember? Or did you say something to him…?

I mean, sometimes when the press goes totally crazy and people give interviews, then he says, ‘Oh my God, not again’.

• And what do you say then?

Nothing.

• You don’t say ‘You asked for it’?

(Laughs) No, no. Poor chap.

• So what would happen now if you met the lady, Rekha, socially on the street. It’s a perfectly normal relationship?

Yeah, fine, say hello, namaste, that’s it.

• I think it is the longest-running story in the media…and it’s quite remarkable how you and Amitabh and the rest of the family have taught us…

I don’t think there’s any need to react.

• In fact, all of us were worried that maybe that’s what is keeping you away from cinema. But now…

No please…