‘If the grandfather had 10 acres, the grandson gets half an acre.It’s hard to sustain a family on that. The alternative is industrialisation’

• Not quite St Stephen’s or Presidency or Loyola.

But I feel proud of my college, and you must be proud of your college too.

• I believe that India is now being driven by people who come from small towns and non-elite institutions. Otherwise the top of the pyramid would have been too narrow for the country to go forward.

I’m proud of you. You are the editor of The Indian Express, and you have risen from this college to that place. I’m proud of you.

• We are here because you are here and you are doing very interesting things in your state.

Yes, our target is to become the Number 1 state in India. You’ll be happy to know that per capita investment in Haryana is the highest (in India) at Rs 78,500 this year.

• Can we take a look around the college? Not very much seems to have changed.

It’s almost the same, the same grounds, the same principal’s office. There’s the tennis court where I used to play.

• I went to the principal’s office and most of the portraits are the same — Chandrashekhar Azad, Subhash Chandra Bose, just as in many small-town colleges. There are some of students of this college who died fighting terrorism or in Jaffna (during the IPKF operations). This college produces a lot of soldiers.

It has produced many personalities. There are many from this college in the defence services. There are generals and major-generals serving the country. I met my teachers.

• So did I.

Prof Srikanth, Mr Rathi and all. I was perplexed. I was so happy I couldn’t even talk to them.

• You come from a small town and you are driving a rural state, an agricultural state. It has no industrial tradition, but by virtue of being next to Delhi — in fact it surrounds Delhi from three sides — it is now becoming an industrial state.

You’re right. Haryana surrounds Delhi like a horseshoe. There are five national highways joining the capital with the rest of the nation. Four of them run across Haryana.

• That’s why we used to say, ‘Why is Haryana fighting over Chandigarh in Punjab? It must stake claim for Delhi.’

Delhi was part of Haryana in the olden days. Culturally, rural Delhi and Haryana are similar.

• Hooda saab, when you go to the villages — because your voters are still mostly in the villages, and that’s where you belong to — and when you tell people Haryana is getting Rs 78,500 per head in investment, do people understand?

People know this creates employment. Unemployment is a major problem that we have to solve. Landholdings are diminishing. If the grandfather had 10 acres, the grandson inherits half an acre. It’s hard to sustain (a family on that). Not everyone can get a government job. The alternative is industrialisation. Some enterprising kids are able to set up small industries. Some take to odd jobs.

• But when you explain your point to people, do they understand? Or do they harp on the usual demands for sarkari naukri and increased landholdings for farmers?

There’s just no land left for agriculture. An entire family cannot sustain itself through agriculture now. People understand that. In Jhajjar, Reliance is investing in an SEZ deal. People thought they’d get a lump sum, but now they are investing in small jobs, flats. Their lifestyle is improving.

• Are they getting substantial amounts of money?

Yes.

• Are you paying, or is it Reliance?

No, Reliance is paying them. We are not acquiring the land. Reliance is buying independently and paying them. We have devised policies. I recently announced that the Haryana State Industrial Development Corporation (HSIDC) and Haryana Urban Development Authority (HUDA) . . .

• People will confuse HUDA for Hooda . . .

I’ll come to that. Whatever land we acquire, apart from paying compensation at the market rate, we’ll pay Rs 10,000 per acre per year for 33 years.

• For 33 years, Rs 10,000 per acre per year?

Yes, even though at present it is Rs 7,000-8,000 in some places. But this helps in giving a sense of belonging.

• This is more than the current deals on agricultural land.

And, as you were saying, in order that people may not get confused HUDA, which is Haryana Urban Development Authority, I’ve created the Haryana Rural Development Authority. When I was talking to a person like you, a friend, he was saying there’s HRDA, there’s HUDA, and you are also Hooda. I said that one is for urban development, one for rural development, and Hooda is the ‘Haryana Overall Development Authority’, for both rural and urban development.

• How challenging has industrialisation been for you? Different chief ministers have had different experiences. Buddhadev Bhattacharjee (in W. Bengal) has had one kind of experience, Narendra Modi (in Gujarat) another. What has your experience been like?

Those types of challenges (like those faced by Bhattacharjee and Modi) I haven’t had to face in Haryana because when I became the chief minister and the Congress government was formed, I fixed a floor rate for the whole state. There’s therefore no confusion in land acquired or purchased by any private party. The owners get a good price.

• You remember the corridors of our college? This red carpet (points to one that has been laid out) is because of you.

It may be because of you, too.

• So you fixed a floor rate that was very high.

Yes, that’s very high. After that the main hindrance was industrial policy. We came out with a new industrial policy. Clearances were made time-bound and transparent. This was appreciated and there was no problem.

• Why does one see these pictures every few months: people with lathis, some burning a car, mainly on the National Highway 8 between Gurgaon and the Rajasthan border. Is there still some anger and resistance?

No, landowners are not angry.

• So who are these people?

As far as the Haryana government is concerned, it has formulated a land-acquisition policy but not itself acquired a single acre for any private concern, SEZ or otherwise.

• Then who are these people who come and protest?

They just want to make political gains out of it. In the real sense, there’s no protest.

• Whose managing these people?

Political persons. Those who aren’t interested in the development of the state. Those who are interested only in the development of themselves and their party.

• Are they from other parties or from your own?

Most of them are from other parties. Some are from mine. A few have been suspended from my party.

• But they have no support, so you see no hindrance to industrialisation?

No. And we haven’t acquired vast tracts of land and given it to any SEZ.

• Tell us something about the dissidence. Why is there so much animosity from the Bhajan Lal parivar?

I don’t know about that. You must ask them.

• They say you sold out to the Reliance SEZ and you are giving a lot of concessions to builders.

I haven’t given any concessions to SEZs. In fact, I formulated a policy in the interest of land owners, even ensuring jobs for their family members in the SEZs or industries that come up on their land by making it compulsory for industries to set up training units. But that’s not the issue. The issue is they want to become chief minister. There can be only one chief minister. I’m surprised (at this coming from Bhajan Lal) . . . a person who has been chief minister for so many years because of the Congress. He was an MLA, he was the party president, his son is a deputy chief minister with me, one of his sons is an MP and one of his nephews is an MLA. I don’t know what is it they want.

• It’s not convenient for you to have one of his (Bhajan Lal’s) sons as your deputy while the other is a dissident campaigning against you.

As far as the person who is my deputy (Deputy Chief Minister Chander Mohan) is concerned, he is okay. He’s all right. I don’t have any personal grudges against anyone.

• And you find it possible to function?

Yes, that’s not a problem

• You said your government is not acquiring land for SEZs but you have talked about your land acquisition policy. So what is your government acquiring land for?

Sometimes we acquire land for IMTs, or Industrial Modern Townships like the one inManesar, or for Haryana State Industrial Development Corporation. We’ve decided on four IMTs, one each in Faridabad, Rohtak, Kharkhoda, and Jagadhari. We’ll be acquiring land for those projects. HUDA too acquires land and we’ve come out with a policy for these acquisitions.

• Do you see big SEZs becoming a reality in your current tenure?

Yes.

• In the next two years?

Of course. You see, 87 applications have been given in-principle clearance by the Ministry of Commerce. Fifty-seven have already fulfilled the requirements.

• When do we see some of them?

They are coming up, but then there are mega SEZs like those of Reliance and DLF (which get all the attention). Otherwise, there are small SEZs and some mid-sized ones too.

• You have been a farmer yourself. Don’t you see any contradiction between SEZs and farming interests?

No. Landowners whose land is sold, or acquired by the government, get full compensation and even job opportunities. Employment is the major thing. That’s why we preferred this SEZ policy. We have targeted an investment of Rs 2 lakh crore, which will create some 20 lakh jobs.

• And you think landholdings can’t sustain families?

Yes. Landholdings are very small.

• When there’s a debate in intellectual circles about SEZs being anti-farmer, anti-poor, what’s your reaction? Do you think they are uninformed?

Since we are not acquiring in the NCR area, we can acquire up to 25 per cent of the land needed for a project. We now have increased facilities so that we can acquire up to 50 per cent. We don’t want to concentrate on just one place. People understand the benefits of SEZs.

• So you are going about the reforms process openly.

I have kept the prime interests of farmers in mind as I’m a farmer’s son.

• There’s no dissent amongst farmers?

No, there’s no dissent anywhere. Politicians try to vitiate the atmosphere but they haven’t been successful.

• Your style is conciliatory, which doesn’t go with Haryana’s politics. You haven’t put anybody behind bars yet. When your government came to power, they were looking for fireworks — cases against Mr Om Prakash Chautala (the former chief minister) and his family. I noticed that Mr Chautala had named almost everything here after Chaudhary Devi Lal, his father. But it still remains that way. You haven’t changed it. Is that politics?

Except two things. I’ve changed the name of the Panipat Thermal Plant, which was named after Chaudhary Devi Lal (during Chautala’s tenure), back to the original name. The other is IMT, Manesar.

• Everything else you’ve left untouched.

Yes, because I don’t want vendetta. My prime interest is in the development of the state. I don’t want to waste my time.

• Since I am coming here from Delhi and everyone there has interests in Gurgaon now, I have to bring some complaints to you. Gurgaon is becoming stunning. But there’s no infrastructure. No power, water, law & order. Traffic is bad. It’s a complete mess.

It’s because the population has increased. Money has been earmarked for roads, bridges etc.

• You could begin with transport.

We are planning for air-conditioned city buses. The process has been expedited.