"If UP and Bihar are kept out, a third force cannot emerge"

A deal is being struck to satisfy (Parkash Singh) Badal that some areas where there is a Sikh population can be left out of the new state. If demarcation of a state is done on the basis of religious identification, it would lay the foundation for the disintegration of the country.

We have opposed it from the economic point of view. Mulayam Singh Yadav and I went there and our stand is that Udham Singh Nagar is not a hilly area and it is economically and culturally linked to the rest of UP. Punjabis form only 20 per cent of its population.

Badal intervened onlyafter that. He has stressed on a change in ceiling laws to protect the interests of the rich landlords.

Why have you taken such an objection to Saraswati Vandana? Invocations at the start of functions have been going on for years.

It came in the context of the paper which was to be presented at the (Education Ministers’) conference. For the first time in the history of India, a person representing them was asked to explain the paper and the paper was explicit and it struck directly at the root of secularism. If Saraswati Vandana is done at a school or at a function, nobody would object to it.

What is your comment on Brinda Karat’s decision to walk out of the party’s central committee because of inadequate representation of women in the party’s decision-making bodies?

The press has made too much of it. No doubt, the representation of women is not what we would like it to be. Some efforts have been made to include women in the state committees, but not much could be done and thisnaturally reflected in the (composition of the) central committee.

We had decided to maintain the position prevalent in the last committee. There was only one Bengal vacancy. The women’s movement in West Bengal has been strong. But the Bengal comrades could not suggest a name. It was then decided to wait for the next meeting. It is not a question of neglect. We have been in the forefront of the demand for women’s reservation in Parliament.

Is your stand on issue-based support to the Congress valid only for the 12th Lok Sabha or is it a general position you have taken?

It depends on how the situation develops. We are convinced of two things. The Congress cannot regain its old position, given the policies it followed in the last four and a half decades. Secondly, coalition politics will continue. Since two elections have already been held in the last two years, people may not like another elections so soon. We have to therefore come to some kind of an arrangement.

We are differentiating betweenthe Congress and the BJP to an extent. This is to meet the immediate requirement, and our support (to the Congress) will be issue-based. The Congress is not a communal party, though it has compromised with communalism in the past. Our decision is to meet the present situation.

What was the need to take such a position now? It is not as if the Congress is about to form a government at the Centre?

The CPM’s congress does not meet every year. The coming by-elections are very crucial. If the BJP wins, it will be able to consolidate its position for some time to come. If the BJP is defeated, the alliance will not be able to maintain its unity for long and the government will fall. Such a situation may come up in one month’s time.

You want to form a viable third front but you are not prepared to do business with Laloo Yadav, who represents an important non-Congress, non-BJP force?

We don’t want to disrupt the unity of the Rashtriya Loktantrik Morcha. We recognise that in case of theformation of a government, Laloo’s party will have a role against the BJP. We are opposed to him and he is opposed to us in Bihar, but that is a different matter. He has weakened the Left forces in the state. But we recognise that if UP and Bihar are kept out, the third force cannot emerge. It cannot be formed with just the parties from the South.

So when the situation arises, we’ll have to find a way out. And on the basis of statements, you should not conclude that the common ground is lost.

You see yourself as a catalayst for the third force?

At the moment, that is the situation. We also happen to be the third largest party in Parliament.

Do you plan to go in for a joint platform or joint campaign with the Congress?

No. No front, no alliance. But we can cooperate with them if an issue comes along. We got together to oppose the imposition of Article 356 in Bihar recently.

Are you planning to support the Congress in the coming elections?

We do not matter much in thesestates.

You have closely watched the Congress Prime Ministers — from Indira Gandhi to P.V. Narasimha Rao. What is your view of Sonia Gandhi?

I have watched them from the days of Nehru. He came to my village Bundala in July 1936 and addressed a large rally. Sonia Gandhi is the leader of the largest political party. I’d met her husband many times. She is showing maturity. Even if they say so and so is close to her, everyone had been given their proper place. No row has started in the party. At the moment, she has emerged as a factor that can rally together the Congress. But it would be a mistake if she thinks she will be able to restore the Congress to its old glory.

She came to call on you here? It shows she is very pragmatic..

Yes.

How long was she here?

Fifty-five minutes.

Did she ask for your support?

No, we talked about the political situation.

So it was a kind of an icebreaker?

Yes. She understands the Indian mind.