‘It would take just 3-4 months to deal with Naxalism if govt has the will and ends corruption in police’

• GAUTAM DHEER: Do you think one can be a DGP of a state or get any other top-post in the government without any political patronage?

If it’s Punjab, the answer is no. In other states, it’s possible.

• HARPREET BAJWA: Punjab police had started a system of surrendered militants acting as informers during times of militancy. It had led to numerous controversies. What do you think of the practice?

There is nothing wrong with it. The police have always used criminals to detect crime. However, senior officers should stay within their limits and keep their men under control.

• MANRAJ GREWAL: Jammu & Kashmir Governor Lt Gen S.K. Sinha (Retd) has mentioned in a book that he had planned Operation Bluestar in a manner which could have reduced the number of casualties. Comment?

The year 1984 (when Operation Bluestar took place) was a strange period. When the situation deteriorated, the Punjab police refused to flush out Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale and his men from the Golden Temple complex. The Border Security Force too refused and it was only then that the task was given to the Army. It was a difficult operation and the Army has its own methods. Gen Sinha is a very wise person. But the atmosphere was surcharged and tense then: a large section of Sikhs across the country were mesmerised by Bhindrawale. I was in Assam in 1984, and my introduction to Bhindrawale was by a driver in Guwahati who had put on his audio-cassette in the car. I could not bear it for even two minutes. My blood started boiling. Sikhism was never meant to be as described by him.

• HARPREET BAJWA: Do you think Bhindrawale’s portrait should be in the SGPC museum at the Golden Temple?

There’s no question of his picture being there. He was no saint. I fail to understand how he is accepted as a saint. Anybody who uses violence can never be a saint.

• SWADESH TALWAR: What are your thoughts on Operation Black Thunder? (In Operation Black Thunder, May 1988, the NSG stormed the Golden Temple and managed to get militants to surrender).

We directed our men to lay siege to the temple. I had taken a decision that if any of our men found anybody moving with a gun, even outside the temple complex, he should be shot. That was the only way to do it.

• SWADESH TALWAR: Did you maintain complete transparency during Operation Black Thunder?

We were the first ones to understand the usefulness of embedded journalists and we made the best use of it.

• JASKIRAN KAPOOR: But should media be allowed everywhere?

You can’t stop them if they get somewhere.

• JASKIRAN KAPOOR: There are many films and books on communalism or riots that are censored. What kind of a democracy is this, where the freedom of expression is curbed? Mahatma Gandhi was opposed to censorship even during the freedom struggle.

Can you imagine Mahatma Gandhi controlling modern days terrorism using the same techniques he used to push the British out of the country? Could one expect Gandhi to fight Lashkar-e-Toiba, the mujahideen and other such terrorist outfits with his peculiar methods? Gandhi was a great humanitarian, who wanted communal harmony. But these days, terrorists are trained not to attack a particular political entity, but destroy the entire civilisation. How would you expect Gandhi to address a Bhindrawale or Osama bin Laden?

• JASKIRAN KAPOOR: What goes on inside your head when you come across a riot situation? Do you go by the rules, or do you follow your instincts?

I would like to cite two instances. In Assam, my team and I came across a riot-like situation. People were pelting stones, damaging property. When I saw a constable standing with a rifle in his hand, I went to him and asked, ‘Should we open fire?’ He replied it was not time. I told him to indicate when we should open fire. After about an hour, when the situation was virtually out of control, he came to me and said, ‘Sir, the time has come.’ I asked him to fire the first shot in the air and then lob teargas shells, to be followed by a cane charge. We broke the rules, but we saved numerous lives.

Then there was the second hijacking at Amritsar. I was running a high temperature. The DIG (Border Range, Amritsar) informed me that a hijacking had taken place and the plane was about to land at Amritsar. I got up and was getting ready to go there when I got a call from the then Cabinet Secretary, who said that they would handle the situation at their end, from Delhi. I asked for a helicopter to be ready. After about an hour, the Cabinet Secretary called me again and asked me if I could go to Amritsar. I told him that he should keep it a secret, which he did. I reached Amritsar and surprisingly, news of my arrival had already been broadcast by BBC Radio. I took charge of the situation and entered into conversation with hijackers. A team of NSG commandos, headed by a brigadier, was waiting. I got another call from the Cabinet Secretary, who asked me to take charge of the situation. I asked my men to enter the plane. Then the Cabinet Secretary called me and asked if I could stop the operation. I replied, ‘No, but I will definitely let you know once it ends.’

Thus, I was able to take on-the-spot decisions. SHOs must take decision themselves because as per the law of the land, all powers emanate from the powers of the SHO.

• SWADESH TALWAR: Isn’t Parkash Singh Badal the SGPC and vice-versa?

I am trying to write a book on such issues. Can Pakistan survive Taliban? Can Akalis survive extremism and can Hindus survive VHP?

• JASKIRAN KAPOOR: These days every community wants to have representation in politics. How do you look at this phenomenon?

What is important is Mayawati’s effort to bring all castes together. In the earlier days, under the leadership of the upper castes, all other castes were brought together by the Congress. However, these days, the leadership is with other castes and this trend is catching up.

• MANRAJ GREWAL: What do you think about Narendra Modi? How popular is he?

I believe Modi is quite popular among women. While working with him, I found that he was quite unhappy about the riots post-Godhra. There is no doubt that he knew the Muslim leadership at that time — they met privately.

• VIPIN PUBBY: Your advice was sought to tackle Naxalism. What would you do?

It would take just 3-4 months to deal with such a situation if the government has the will and if it deals firmly with the problem of corruption in the police and security forces. Dantewara district, where the recent jailbreak took place, had a total strength of just 94 policemen although districts in that state are twice as large as in Punjab. They need to build up forces, increase staff-strength and fight the Naxalites. Unfortunately, police transfers are done by politicians. It depends on who gives how much. We built up the force, but the personnel were transferred for as meagre an amount as Rs 30,000. There is tremendous corruption in the recruitment of police officers. If somebody has paid money to be recruited, he has not joined to fight criminals and get killed.

• ANAND BODH: Why do you think the Army has failed to eliminate terrorism from Jammu & Kashmir?

I think the army has done a good job. Terrorism in Kashmir is not because of the locals there. There are foreign mercenaries who are trained to cause disruption. They are the real terrorists. Rajesh Pilot asked me to be Governor of Manipur. I asked to be sent as Director General of Police (Jammu & Kashmir). He liked the idea and fixed up my meeting with the then prime minister, P.V. Narasimha Rao. He was very appreciative and asked me to put up a note. However, the home ministry sat on it and approval never came. If it had, you would not have put this question to me today.

• ANAND BODH: From recent attacks, it appears that militants are spreading their network to other states. How should the government tackle the situation, or, is the government responsible for the same?

A few wrong steps by the government have triggered such attacks. For instance, SIMI (Students Islamic Movement of India) was made illegal. However, it is better to allow every kind of political expression. When you force somebody out, it backfires.

• KHUSHBOO SANDHU: Fake encounters are quite common these days. People who were “killed” are surfacing. How do you explain that?

Where are the cases of fake encounters? If there are any, the officers responsible should definitely be punished.

• MANRAJ GREWAL: What about the recent RDX hauls? What could be the source of such huge quantities of explosives?

A few years ago, I mentioned the need to check rural unemployment. Without lowering rural unemployment, such problems cannot be weeded out.

• GAUTAM DHEER: Do retired bureaucrats and policemen make better sports administrators?

We have many bureaucrats in the hockey federation. They are capable officers and are doing a good job. We even have a former journalist who has made a mark for himself in Indian cricket!

• SHALINI GUPTA: As president of IHF, don’t you agree the Indian team is struggling to qualify for the Olympics?

We’ve always had to qualify. Previously, there was one tournament with 12 teams, out of which only seven used to qualify. This time, Asian Games winners were also included amongst the qualifiers. In the Asian Games, we stood fifth and the first three teams qualified for the Olympics. Like us, Germany did not qualify in the European championships because of changes in the rules.

• HARPREET BAJWA: You stated that you would reward the hockey team with Rs 1,000 per player when they scored a goal and deduct Rs 2,000 whenever a goal is scored against the team. How do you justify this?

My announcement actually yielded results — the team ended up scoring 53 goals and only three goals were scored against them. Each player was rewarded as promised.

• MANEESH CHIBBER: The recently launched Indian Cricket League and Indian Premier League have formats similar to the Premier Hockey League. Did you set the trend?

Yes, we definitely did.

• MUKESH BHARDWAJ: Why is interest fading in hockey while people remain glued to their TV sets for cricket?

Hockey has a large following where it is played but cricket attracts more TV viewers. Personally, I like to watch test matches, that too in short intervals. For instance, when Sachin Tendulkar is playing.

• JASKIRAN KAPOOR: The recent movie Chak De: was it an inspiration for other sports-based films, or was it more a gender based issue? Where does women’s hockey stand today?

Throughout history, men have looked to women for inspiration!

• VANI GROVER: Is K.P.S. Gill a supercop, a writer-publisher or President of IHF? Which image do you relate to most?

I have certain secret images which I relate to in private!

(The transcript was prepared by Varinder Bhatia)