In Gujarat,people have put Modi in charge. Here,Prithviraj Chavan lives on New Delhis blessings

The results show that my party is now occupying the space of Opposition and even if Sena has managed to retain power,the party itself has declined in the state. In Mumbai,Sena has lost seats and it is actually the BJP which has improved its performance and helped the alliance retain power.

Girish Kuber: How do you look at the MNSs performance? Has it met your expectations?

Raj Thackeray: I am satisfied but not completely. We have improved our performance by 400 per cent in most corporations. We cannot be considered only a Mumbai-based party anymore.

Girish Kuber: You share a very old connection with Express Towers.

Raj Thackeray: I worked as a freelance cartoonist with Loksatta for two years,1986 and 1987. Sharad Pawar was the chief minister at the time. I once drew a cartoon of his. That was the last cartoon I drew here. After Saamna started publication,I did a lot of cartoons for it between 1992 and 1997. Many of these about Pawar became quite popular.

Suhas Gangal: You say you have a passion for new creation (navnirman),but you are accused of resorting to imitation.

Those who make such allegations are not capable of doing anything beyond that.

Suhas Gangal: Balasaheb had said that you have only nakkal (imitation) while the Sena has akkal (brains).

Raj Thackeray: Even to imitate,one needs some intelligence. The point is,I have not come from outsidethis is what I have inherited from my family. I suggest you read the old books of Acharya Atre and (Balasahebs father) Prabodhankar Thackeray. Prabodhankar had foreseen the influx of people from other regions and their domination over jobs. My grandfather had also written that migrants would come in droves to Mumbai and would reduce the strength of the Marathi population. After reading Atres views on the Marathi people,would you consider the ideology of the Sena in the 1960s as imitation?

Girish Kuber: What would you say about the maverick nature of the Thackeray family?

Raj Thackeray: The maverick nature is an inherited quality. My grandfather and great-great grandfather were people of a very different making. If they disagreed with something,they would oppose it firmly. A love for art and a sense of social responsibility is something that runs in our family.

Mukund Sangoram: When you decided to start a new party,which aspects of the Shiv Sena did you decide not to take?

Raj Thackeray: I decided not to get into fights with editors and writers. I decided not to hold grudges against journalists.

Prashant Dixit: When you were in the Shiv Sena,on which issues did the party dilute its stand?

Raj Thackeray: There were absolutely no issues as long as Balasaheb was at the helm. There was no match to his integrity. His ideas were firm. In his time,the party did not focus only on money and power. Right from my childhood days,I have seen him painstakingly nurture the party.

Girish Kuber: Are you saying that the subsequent leadership did not pay attention to what was going on?

Raj Thackeray: When I start an agitation,I am totally convinced about it. So I can answer any criticism about it. The point is,if one is not convinced about an issue,one cannot really do justice to it. In Saamna,there was a news item about uploading Uddhavs books on the Internet. These are the things they are writing about while the elections are round the corner. I also have my own interests,but I am conscious of the time and occasion. If there is a lack of seriousness about basic issues,then everything fades. That is why I left the Sena.

Madhu Kamble: Between Hindutva and Marathi pride,the Sena seems to have strayed away from the Marathi issue. Is that a reason why you started a new party?

Raj Thackeray: In my Shiv Sena days,I had organised a railways employment campaign. I was told not to pursue it any further. This was certainly a factor in my breaking away. However,I would not blame Balasaheb for this. Because of his leadership,the party rode to power and reached the Lok Sabha and saw success. About what has happened afterwards,the less said the better.

Dinesh Gune: Is the MNS the Shiv Senas biggest enemy?

Raj Thackeray: Whichever party does not work for the people is my enemy. I have criticised the Congress and Ajit Pawar as well. At the end of the day,the party which is in power will face criticism. If the Sena is in power in the Mumbai and Thane civic bodies,it will have to face the brickbats. They have ruined the city,so I will certainly speak against them. If I go to Pune,I will criticise the Nationalist Congress Party (NCP). My disputes with the Sena are not like property disputes or disputes between Anil and Mukesh Ambani.

Sandeep Acharya: Do you still regard Balasaheb as your idol? What exactly would you be willing to do to make him happy?

Raj Thackeray: There is no doubt that Balasaheb is a revered figure for me. I will always try to work for the Mumbai and Thane of his dreams,and Maharashtra as well. If I can realise his dreams about this urban region,I think he would certainly be happy.

Sandeep Acharya: What is your blueprint for the city?

Raj Thackeray: One thing is certain: I will work with utmost ruthlessness and show results. Even today,the existing laws are not being implemented properly. Today,outsiders have destroyed Mumbais culture. Now,each household has two or three vehicles. If a family has more than two vehicles,they should be taxed,otherwise the roads will be clogged. If more stringent laws are to be brought into place,then officials say they need the central governments nod for that. If I were in power,I would have gone ahead and framed stricter regulations. Would the central government have sent forces to arrest me? This is the difference between Maharashtra and Gujarat. There,Narendra Modi has been put in charge by the people,while in Maharashtra,Prithviraj Chavan lives on New Delhis blessings. There can be very little expectations from such chief ministers.

Prashant Dixit: Is it your aim to emulate Gujarat in terms of drawing investment and development?

Raj Thackeray: My aim is the development of Maharashtra. In Maharashtra,the state,officials demand a share of 40 per cent to allow investment to come. How can investment come to Maharashtra? That is why I tell people in Belgaum (in Karnataka) that Maharashtra is no ramrajya.

Sandeep Acharya: Are you satisfied with the performance of the corporators from your party in Mumbai and Thane?

Raj Thackeray: Of course,I am not satisfied. But in Mumbai and Pune,they have raised many pertinent issues. There are two or three people who have done very good work in Mumbai. It was after looking at the performance of the corporators of all the parties that the idea of conducting an examination for ticket-seekers took shape.

Girish Kuber: Balasaheb never conducted such an examination nor did he ever feel the need for it.

Raj Thackeray: Maybe he did not feel the need,but I thought otherwise. Times have changed and peoples ways of thinking have also changed. With the present generation,you need to show something tangible or they will throw you out. The Internet and the media have brought the world closer. People compare the situation in cities around the world with their own and see the sorry state of affairs. When people ask questions about such things,at least my corporators should have a basic awareness level.

Prashant Dixit: What is your vision to ensure that industries stay in the state?

Raj Thackeray: In Mumbai,while many mills closed down,many major corporate offices also sprang up. If the transport facilities are upgraded,many more industries can take root here. There is a need to create basic facilities. Industry must find a congenial environment. In fact,there is no better destination for industry than Maharashtra. The reason why big businesses like Disney do not come here is the lack of political stability. And if at all such industries come to the state,workers unions will immediately come and raise their flag. While I believe that there must not be any injustice to the working class,I do not approve of the ruckus raised by a few self-styled representatives.

Girish Kuber: How do you then justify the attacks on non-Marathi youths?

Raj Thackeray: If the state is to move ahead,preference must be given to the Marathi youth. Our youngsters shine in Silicon Valley,so it is not correct to say that they lack talent. The industries which come here can very well choose their talent,but from among Marathis. There is no sector in which we cannot hold our own. But company leaders bring their own people to work here and deny opportunities to the local people. I cannot accept this. Marathis are denied work on the premise that workers from Bihar are willing to work for less money. When I took the initiative of the railway employment drive,5 lakh people applied.

Girish Kuber: For many of these outsiders,Mumbai was the city they readily came to and made their own. But your agitation changed things.

Raj Thackeray: We have always treated people from other states as our own,but they never reciprocate. When they come here,they speak of how the world is one,and when they go back to their own states,they belong to that state. Such a farce goes on only in Mumbai and Maharashtra.

Dinesh Gune: What is your opinion of the Jaitapur nuclear project?

Raj Thackeray: I am of the firm opinion that the project must become a reality. The reasons put forth against it are totally unfounded. The bogey of a tsunami is raised. The fact remains that the countries that promote nuclear projects are more environment-conscious than others. There is the talk of threats posed by the plant and of release of radioactive materials. Then what is the position of the critics on the Bhabha Atomic Research Centre? There is no opposition to a project in the heart of Mumbai,but there is criticism

levelled at Jaitapur. Why is the Shiv Sena silent on the issue for the past three months?

Suhas Gangal: The Thackeray family is the only political family in the country that does not contest elections. Why?

Raj Thackeray: The thought has not come to any of us.

Sandeep Acharya: Recently,you had expressed a wish to become the chief minister. You will have to contest elections for that.

Raj Thackeray: If I decide to take such a step,I will certainly contest elections.

Sachin Rohekar: Often,it is seen that most contract workers are non-Marathi and many skilled workers hail from other regions. Do you oppose them too?

Raj Thackeray: It has never been my stand that outsiders should not come to the state at all. There are certain traditional occupations which have been the preserve of certain communities. I oppose them only when they engage in political games and start dictating terms. Giving shelter to people,saying they are poor and needy and then creating constituencies out of them is what bothers me. Some Abu Azmi from Azamgarh comes here and gets elected. It is the north Indians who vote for him. This is dangerous. It is to pander to this very constituency that parties field candidates on the basis of caste. This is all part of a strategy to make Mumbai a separate independent entity. The idea is to get corporators,MLAs and MPs elected and then question the claim of the local people on Mumbai. That is why they have built their illegal shanties on a couple of acres of land,in connivance with the police and the corporation. With time,these same shanties will become permanent structures.

Girish Kuber: Since you do not oppose the extension of the limit for regularisation of slums,how do you think this question would be solved?

Raj Thackeray: The entire issue is bogus. There is an ongoing process of ruining the city and bringing in more outsiders. People living on footpaths are given voting rights. The entire conspiracy is one of getting voters cards and ration cards and then creating a constituency and breaking off Mumbai. If what I say turns out to be false,then I will leave politics.

Girish Kuber: Why do you think your politics is especially targeted,when there are other strong regional forces like Mamata Banerjee and Karunanidhi?

Raj Thackeray: The reason is that Maharashtra and Gujarat are located at the very centre of the country. So,neither the people from the north nor the south consider us their own. The Tamil Nadu assembly passes a resolution opposing capital punishment for the accused in the Rajiv Gandhi assassination case and nobody says a word. Omar Abdullah demands in the J&K assembly that Afzal Guru should not be hanged and everyone is silent. When other regions assert their identity,they are not questioned. In Maharashtra,our own people take us to task.

Sandeep Acharya: Balasaheb threw quite a few barbs at Anna Hazares Lokpal agitation. What is your take on it?

Raj Thackeray: I find the coterie of people around Anna enigmatic. It is difficult to understand what exactly they want. That is why they did not get the same response in Mumbai that they first got in Delhi. Basically,there is no connection between the issues that people actually face and the agitation. At first,people thought that corruption would automatically be countered because of Anna. But then,Anna himself lost his sense of direction. There is a limit to getting swayed by a particular idea. While there is a need to root out corruption,I cannot say whether the Lokpal will be able to do this successfully.

Girish Kuber: M F Husain was opposed by some people even after his death. In such an environment,you demanded that the state government should arrange for his last rites in Pandharpur.

Raj Thackeray: I never opposed M F Husain. He was an excellent painter. It would have been better if he had not painted the works depicting nude Hindu goddesses. Every country has its own culture. In a country which holds religion in high regard,he should have known the consequences of creating such paintings. But refusing to perform his last rites in India is utterly wrong. That is why I put forward this position.

Transcribed by Swatee Kher and Sandeep Acharya,translated by Neerad Pandharipande