‘SP does not want mid-term polls but no one knows what the Congress’s partners will do next’

Ram Gopal Yadav: Before 1988,I hadn’t thought I would enter politics. Netaji (Mulayam Singh) was contesting parliamentary elections and I was working on the campaign. I used to be a college lecturer in those days. There was one block in Netaji’s constituency that he would never win. So Netaji made me file my nomination papers for the block pramukh elections. It was a one-sided election and I won easily. Three years later,I was made zila parishad president. Subsequently,I moved to the Rajya Sabha and was there till 2004. After that,I was elected to the Lok Sabha where I was chairman of the Standing Committee on Agriculture for four-and-a-half years before returning to the Rajya Sabha. I belong to a simple family. When I contested the Lok Sabha elections,I had to fight against D P Yadav. I won that election by over two lakh votes. But I have not acquired a taste for the kind of politics we see now,which is why I tend to stay in the background.

Vandita Mishra: The image of the Samajwadi Party is very different from your own. There is indiscipline amongst party workers,there have been allegations of ‘goonda raj’. Why does the SP have such an image?

Ram Gopal Yadav: It’s true that political parties have elements that show the party in bad light. It is SP’s misfortune that this aspect has received a lot of publicity. D P Yadav and Madan Bhaiya were in our party but when we threw them out,nothing was written about all the other parties they went to. If the Nitish Katara case had not happened,no one would have been talking about D P Yadav and Madan Bhaiya. Madan Bhaiya was contesting elections as an MLA from the Lok Dal but no one talked about that. Had it been the Samajwadi Party,it would have made headlines. So this is our bad luck.

Vandita Mishra: Is it simply bad luck or is there indiscipline in the party?

Ram Gopal Yadav: The party list is before you. Barring a few,out of 400 people,no one can be called a criminal.

Vandita Mishra: What about allegations that SP party workers are aggressive and indisciplined?

Ram Gopal Yadav: It’s not the party worker of the ruling party who has to struggle,but those whose party is not in power. There is no one among us who has not been beaten with a lathi and that is why we are stronger. We are not criminals but we will not bow down in front of injustice. We believe in what Dr Ram Manohar Lohia said: hum maarenge bhi nahi lekin manenge bhi nahi (we will not hit out but we will not be cowed down either).

Ravish Tiwari: Where does someone like Amar Singh fit into Dr Lohia’s party? How did he rise to the top in the party?

Ram Gopal Yadav: I have no qualms in admitting that this is the fault of the party leadership. Party workers were never happy with Amar Singh’s activities. But since he had the support of the party leadership,no one would say anything. And when this reached a critical stage,someone had to come forward and,in the end,I had to take that step. When the issue reached a point where party workers felt that because of Amar Singh the party would face losses and when people started leaving the party,I had to speak to Netaji. Till then,no one had taken him on in the party so he could not tolerate it when I did and he gave in his resignation.

D K Singh: Does the Samajwadi Party favour mid-term polls?

Ram Gopal Yadav: SP does not want mid-term polls. But in politics,there is confusion which leads to uncertainty. With the kind of partners that the Congress has at the Centre,no one knows what they will do next. We do not want elections before 2014—I don’t think any MP wants that—but what happens sometimes is that without anyone wanting it,it happens. Mulayamji’s statements on the polls in Lucknow had nothing to do with Delhi. There are two years left for the elections and candidates will be decided within a year. Parliamentary constituencies are so large that even if you announce the candidates one year in advance,it is difficult for the candidate to visit each village. This time in UP,our candidates won in large numbers and defeated the moneyed candidates because there is no place they did not go in the last one year. We have told MPs to be in their constituencies and prepare for elections. There are two years left and if they remain amongst the people,then no one can say,‘you came after five years’. The media has reported that Mulayamji was hinting at an early election. But that’s the language we use to talk to party workers. If they feel elections are going to happen,they will stay in their constituency; otherwise they will take it easy.

MANEESH Chhibber: During the UP assembly election campaign,Congress ministers raised the issue of minority quota. Did SP gain from this as the Muslim voter saw through those statements and voted for the SP?

Ram Gopal Yadav: When a party is in power for several years and makes a promise just before the elections,it raises doubts in the minds of the people. If their intention had been good,they could have done this nine years ago. They said this when the candidates had been declared. Congress has always made promises,never fulfilled them.

D K Singh: The Samajwadi Party also promised 18 per cent quota for Muslims.

Ram Gopal Yadav: What we have said is based on the Sachar committee report. It says the condition of India’s Muslims is worse than that of Dalits. We have said that special provisions can be made in our Constitution,which Dr Lohia also spoke of,for those who are backward socially and educationally. Quota has to be set in accordance with the population. So if the condition of Muslims is worse than that of others,in accordance with the percentage of their population,they should get quota. In our manifesto,we have said that we will send this proposal to the Central government.

Coomi Kapoor: Akhilesh Yadav was supposed to represent the new face of the SP but when he announced his cabinet,it was full of old faces,including Raja Bhaiya.

Ram Gopal Yadav: There is still scope for a lot of people to join the Cabinet. Our CM has said that the youth will be represented in the next Cabinet expansion. But first,people with experience had to be included.

Coomi Kapoor: How did people like Raja Bhaiya come back?

Ram Gopal Yadav: Reports on Raja Bhaiya are highly exaggerated. He has been projected as if he is a big don. I want you to ask the people in Raja Bhaiya’s constituency about his behaviour. People have maligned his reputation. I do not know him that well but whenever I have met him or seen him,from the way he talks and the people around him,I have never felt he is a criminal or that he troubles people.

Rakesh Sinha: You just said the Samajwadi Party does not want mid-term polls. If the need arises,will you rescue the Congress?

Ram Gopal Yadav: That depends on the issue. We have always said that if an issue arises which is against the people’s interest,SP will not rescue Congress. We have given our support on a number of occasions on the basis of issues. There have also been times when we protested.

Rakesh Sinha: Your party does not want to join the government?

Ram Gopal Yadav: No,we do not.

Unni Rajen Shanker: Even while the debate was on whether Mulayam or Akhilesh would be UP chief minister,you were the first senior leader to say Akhilesh will be chief minister. Why did you say that so early?

Ram Gopal Yadav: When Akhilesh had set out to campaign for the party,people responded to him. The kind of support the party enjoyed was only because of his yatra. It was everyone’s desire that this boy should be the next chief minister. I expressed what was the desire of so many people. It was a little premature and party people did tell me the timing wasn’t right,but I know my politics,and I know what is to be said and when.

D K Singh: What went wrong with the campaign of the other youth leader in UP,Rahul Gandhi?

Ram Gopal Yadav: I feel that when Rahulji initially used to visit UP and his constituency,his image was that of a natural and sober leader. But thereafter,I guess his advisers,either the ones in Delhi or the ones travelling with him,didn’t give him sound advice. They made him do stupid things like drink water from the handpump for national TV. But the aam aadmi gets frustrated looking at drama like that on television because that’s the water he drinks every day. So Rahulji became a joke. Every MP goes to his constituency,central ministers go,but the media that covered Rahul Gandhi in his constituency or on the campaign trail treated it as an extraordinary phenomenon. That failed. His advisers failed him.

D K Singh: What is your opinion of Rahul as a leader?

Ram Gopal Yadav: After the UP elections,people are wondering if Rahul should even be considered a neta or not.

Monojit Majumdar: Samajwadi Party promised several sops—free electricity,unemployment allowance—that will cost around Rs 11,000 crore annually. Mulayam Singh and Akhilesh are still saying their promises would be fulfilled within one year. Where will you get the money from?

Ram Gopal Yadav: It’s possible to give allowances to people and still be left with enough money. Let me give you an example: during Mayawati’s government,a Rs 30 ticket would be cut for one truckload of baalu (sand). Another Rs 5,000 was charged on each truck and a receipt was made in the name of “goonda tax”. Our plan is to convert that Rs 30 receipt to a Rs 300 ticket and abolish that Rs 5,000 receipt. By this plan alone,we will get a revenue of Rs 10,000 crore. It is such a big state that all the resources can be utilised properly without burdening the people. If we have promised laptops and tablets for students,they will be a reality by August.

D K Singh: Mulayam Singh has said he would be more active at the Centre. What would be the role of the SP in a third or a fourth front?

Ram Gopal Yadav: So far,this is just in the minds of some people. I don’t think something like this is happening,but sometimes the situation forces the creation of such fronts.

Online reader: Is SP still Mulayam Singh Yadav’s party or have the reins been taken over by Akhilesh Yadav? What is the position of senior leaders now?

Ram Gopal Yadav: Mulayam Singh has been the supreme leader of the party and will continue to be so. Akhilesh is the chief minister,and no chief minister has ever been bigger than the party president. The other senior leaders have responsibilities within the party and as ministers.

Ravish Tiwari: The election of a new President will take place soon. Do you have any names in mind for the post?

Ram Gopal Yadav: Whenever the presidential elections are discussed,Samajwadi Party will definitely suggest a good name.

Ravish Tiwari: Mulayam Singh was staunchly against the Ram Janmabhoomi movement in Ayodhya,but he joined hands with Kalyan Singh. Did you support that decision? And when was it realised that he had to be taken out?

Ram Gopal Yadav: You should have asked this question to Mulayam Singhji because it was his decision,not mine. The question is irrelevant now because Mulayam Singhji accepted his mistake and apologised to the Muslims of the country.

Coomi Kapoor: What will happen to Mayawati’s parks? Is SP planning to create some of its own parks?

Ram Gopal Yadav: Our government doesn’t intend to create any parks like,nor do we intend to remove or break Mayawati’s statues. We would limit ourselves to development of the state and stay out of such controversial matters.

Pradeep Kaushal: What is your stand on the stay on the death penalty for Balwant Singh Rajoana?

Ram Gopal Yadav: Personally,I have always been against death sentences. But after Rajiv Gandhi’s killers were sentenced by the Supreme Court,the Tamil Nadu Assembly passed a resolution against it,the Punjab Assembly passed a similar resolution for someone else,also the Kashmir Assembly…this is a dangerous trend. I don’t support the idea of creating political pressure to save people convicted of heinous crimes.

Ravish Tiwari: Do you support capital punishment for Ajmal Kasab?

Ram Gopal Yadav: I am against the delay that we are seeing in the case. Such a delay in the verdict,even in a matter that is so sensitive,leaves little faith in the judiciary. Justice delayed is justice betrayed.

Vandita Mishra: What is your party’s position on the latest controversy regarding chief of the army,Gen V K Singh?

Ram Gopal Yadav: We believe that action should have been taken earlier. The minister accepts that he was informed by Gen V K Singh about a bribe,and that he even named a certain general. Not taking action seems almost as if the minister was trying to cover up the situation. Today the person who was named at that time has filed a defamation case against V K Singh because there is no proof. But at that time,when there was proof,the police could have been called in and a case registered against the man who offered the bribe. That is certainly a mistake. I have always considered the defence minister as a very honest political leader,but I think he should have initiated action then and there.

Coomi Kapoor: Is there any possibility that Mulayam Singh will join the Union Cabinet?

Ram Gopal Yadav: He has been there before and if need be,he will be there again after 2014,not now.

Transcribed by Geeta Gupta and Ruhi Bhasin