Vidya Balan has liberated herself from the success-stardom trap. In an interview with The Indian Express Editor-in-Chief Shekhar Gupta on NDTV 24x7s Walk the Talk,the actor talks of how she has stopped trying to fit into the mould and learnt to play different characters Hello and welcome to Walk the Talk. I am Shekhar Gupta at the Bandra Fort in Mumbai. My guest is somebody whos made the description,thinking mans crumpet,a cliché. SG: You have heard this now for many years and you have gone beyond it. Not just a thinking mans crumpet,but you are quite an idol for the thinking woman now. (laughs): Thank you,Thank you. I like that,and I think each one of us thinks,so I am everyones (laughs) SG: You are doing fine,yes Thank you. I like to believe that SG: Children will start loving you only if your films dont start getting A tag Right. My past two films have been A films. SG: A lot of children probably watched them I think Ishqiya for sure. A lot of kids tell me because of the song Ibn Batuta a lot of kids as in teenagers seem to have watched it. So I think its okay now. We shall attempt to do more U-A films,if not just U. SG: Now you have to win over the children Yes. I Agree SG: But you have done something for the children as well,Paa for example Yeh. Paa and even Munnabhai and Bhool Bhulayai. I am amazed by the number of kids who come up to me and say Manjulika. I didnt think the film will have that kind of impact on the kids. I know that kids love horror but they love Manjulika SG: Kids find horror funny. Kids love horror because they are scared,and grown ups are also scared. Actually so many people told me they were completely spooked out after Bhool Bholaiya. There was this friend of mine I must tell you who told me. We were supposed to meet around the week of that release. I said I am working through the day so lets meet at night and he said no no no I will meet you during the day. So I said why,and he said I dont want to meet you at night for a while. SG: So after Ishqiya,what happened? A lot of men wanted to meet you or would want to avoid you. Would they be driven by a fatal attraction or would they be wiser? What do you think? Men are always driven by fatal attraction. SG: You tell me. I think for men when they are attracted,it doesnt matter SG: But the Ishqiya character Yeh. But men are ready to risk anything,because men think and I leave it at that. Dot dot dot . SG: You did a great job of looking so vulnerable in every scene and turning out to be so cruelly manipulative,right Yeh,I guess that was the character. The brief was throughout that when these two men look at her,they are completely smitten by her simplicity and vulnerability not knowing that they are actually being manipulated so effortlessly. So I think that was who she was SG: Theres a great line from there which said aap kare to love,hum kahe to sex. Yeh,Arshads line. What an iconic line it has become Tumhara ishq ishq,humara ishq sex. Waise I think for most people that holds true. I think we are all very moralistic when it comes to others and when it comes to us we are all. SG: Did you feel.. actually feel like a bitch doing that role,if I could use that expression. (laughs) I felt good,completely in control,extremely desirable. Yeh I like that manipulative streak. I dont know whether I felt like a .. SG: Something that rhymes with bitch. Although you should not be coy having used the language you did in the film Yeh. But television audience we want. But I like the fact that she was playing these two men. I think women are very capable of doing that,but we are so conditioned to play coy.. SG: play the victim Yeh,and I completely enjoyed that. Playing two people against each other was fun and sexually exploiting them.. SG: Without quite letting them get it,until you wanted it Right SG: But did you go home sometime overwhelmed by it,because it was such a different role.. kind of role that women in your age,leading women in your age do in Hindi cinema? We were in Panchgani for two months and that helped. You are in a different zone when you are doing a film. So I prefer the shooting of my films outside of Bombay. You are in that other mindspace,and like I said,this was the first time I was getting to play a woman who is not apologetic about anything. She was just enjoying. She was the mirch-masala tadka.. she was all of it. So I was enjoying doing that. SG: Because in a way she is exploiting not two men but three,including her husband Yeh,including her husband,and I dont think we have had women in Hindi cinema,where one woman has played three men SG: Well,maybe somebody did,but then she didnt emerge victorious. She died in the end and deeply regretted whatever she had done. The lesson to the viewer was Aisa kabhi mat karna this is what happens to bad women like these. But here she emerged victorious. She walked into. SG: the sunset accompanied by both the men,and remember the backdrop,the burning house,lighting up that sort of dark sky. Quite a sight. So you have many manipulative women,but I dont remember any who emerged victorious. Thats what I am saying. She was unapologetic about it. You were not judging here. There was no judgment on her. Ishq me sab bebawaja hota hai. Usne kiya kyunki she loved truly,passionately,deeply. SG: And why should we be sexist. In classical Hindi movie,even a manipulative man never wins. yes good vs evil. SG: Either goes to jail or dies a very bad death or gets reformed. Women should always be applauded when they are manipulative. I am being sexist (laughs) SG: At least they are more fun,I will say as a man. Vidya,I will give you a proposition and tell me if its fair? Do I get the sense that you have now liberated yourself from this success-stardom trap that afflicts all young women in Bollywood if I do a film the sole criterion of doing it should be that it should be a big hit I think I figured now over time that there are no rules to stardom or success. Theres only one thing that works and thats conviction. So if I am convinced about something,i will do it to the best of my abilities,and obviously if the film is also made with that kind of conviction,I think it works. It has been proved time and again,so today you cant make sweeping judgments or predictions like formula doesnt work or only formula works,because where an ishqiya works,a dabaang also works. Its just about the kind of conviction that goes into telling a story. SG: but tell me,how does liberation happen? You were in that trap Oh ofcourse. Most definitely SG: Describe the period when you were in that trap. I came in very liberated,happy to be myself and then somewhere along the line I began to feel this was that long cherished dream of being in films,of being an actor that people recognised,and then you suddenly want to hold on to it,and you are saying what is the formula that people are using to hold on to okay this must be it,not realising that I was being liked for being me. I suddenly tried to fit into the mould and I failed miserably. SG: You tried to be kareena,Katrina and priyanka. Everyone,before them and after them. SG: and then you discovered you were Vidya Absolutely. And its been the happiest discovery. There is nothing better than. SG: Because none of them can be Vidya I am glad,but there is nothing more,if you are using the word liberating,than being oneself and being liked for that. SG: What liberated you? Describe that process of liberation. Theres a lot of pressure in cinema. I come from a non-film family SG: So you are only as good as your next film Thats true. But what liberated me was the fact that directors were coming to me for not because I could be anyone else,but I could play anyone else. I think there is a difference between the two. They were coming to me because I could,if I may say so,play different characters. They didnt want me to be playing Vidya Balan again and I think that is a very happy realisation. To be yourself and make choices to be different people onscreen. SG: Instead of being a wallflower Yes. Ever since that realisation happened,Paa,Ishqiya and No one killed Jessica happened. The kind of roles being offered to me are extremely diverse and challenging and fulfilling,and I am growing. SG: In between you did some rubbishy films if I may say so Yes. I think more than the films being rubbishy,I was not convinced and that showed through my performances,and thats what I realised. SG: The totally fake activist in kismat connection. I thought I was someone who gets challenged by playing different people and this was. And I had done that so far up till Bhool Bholaiya,so I was telling myself this was childs play. So I did it without conviction. I sleepwalked through the film and it showed. I am very grateful that I went through that journey,that process,so early in my career. SG: So was kismat connection that cathartic moment. I think Hey Baby and kismat connection coming back to back,there was a bhool bholaiya in between that got lost. SG: Bhool bholaiya was fun. In fact our film critic told me I must watch bhool bholaiya,particularly towards the end when you dance,in a kind of a trance. I thought it was quite an interesting film,bit spoofy,not spooky for me,and also towards the end you were very good. Thank you. I enjoyed doing that; going berserk. Normally I am an actor who does a little bit of research on every role,so I wanted to know about the multiple-personality disorder. Of course as a psychology student I knew my bit,but I wanted to read up a bit and Priyadarshan told me I dont want you to do anything. Just come on set and follow my instructions. On the set he told me,be still is the word,I want you to feel,look be still,like a beast and I said okay. SG: Like a beast of prey. But let me tell you,if you started working on that field,you will find very good business in the film industry,isnt it,become a therapist. I think I would qualify for that. What really excites me about being an actor is the opportunity to be a completely different person,to vicariously live another persons life and then come back to me SG: I think thats the challenge for an actor,I always give the example of Jack Nicholson. When he plays a role,he becomes that character. He is not Jack Nicholson. You consciously try to do that so that people do not remember you. When people see you on screen,they dont say Vidya Balan in one more role I think its a huge complement when that happens. After Paa,my mom told me,You know,I could have never thought of you as Auros mother,but there you were and I had forgotten you were my daughter. I think that was one of the biggest compliments for me. Even other people say that. When they forget that its me,its the most satisfying. SG: And you also got so much flak from usual suspects when you were trying to do those stardom hunting films,but not now. Everybody loves you. You can do nothing wrong Yes. But I dont think thats true because its a matter of time. I have gone through the learning curves. There will be other learning curves. But I am glad I went through that. I think what I also realised is that stardom is an outcome. It cant be the goal. SG: Thats a profound line. We shall think about it. You remind me of something. I had recorded in exactly the same place with somebody else Shabana Azmi,and I sometimes tease her,because sometimes on late night music channels I catch old Hindi songs and I caught one the other day Ek gal par tota bole and I told her that you did that. She immediately remembered and said,yes Sashi Kapoor and this and that and yellow dress SG: and then she moved on completely. So you see yourself in that mould a little bit or differently. Thank you,thats a huge compliment. I have loved her through my college years as an idol. What I have loved about her is that she figured what her strength was SG: and what wasnt And she is someone who brings alive strong women; different kind of strong women is just a very generic term for the kind of variety of characters she has played,but she did it so beautifully. So I think that was always an inspiration for me. SG: Your strength wasnt being Katrina,Kareena or Priyanka,because there were already Katrina,Kareena and Priyanka Right SG: So,was it liberating or was it disappointing,because you are in the world of glamour,and I am giving up the idea of glamour of this kind did it worry you for a moment or you just tossed it. For me,onscreen,if someone expects me to be glamorous,because the role requires it,I will happily do it,but if not,then no. Unfortunately what happens is that the so called glamorous parts lack substance most of the time. They are very fluffy,very superficial. They have their limitations. SG: One more in a garden of wallflowers. Yes,yes,but I am getting to do far more. For example in my next film,the dirty picture I will have to be extremely glamorous. SG: Silk Smita,no less,thunder thighs and all. (laughs) its going to be one hell of a role. I am extremely nervous about this one SG: Nervous? Nervous,because I think as I see,she was someone who was just sexually offensive in some ways. I have seen some videos of her and I was like My God,really. But thats the fun,that I dont identify with a large part of her personality. I am sure,along the way,there will be something or the other. SG: Yes,because most of her dances were like simulated sex Precisely. Thats why I was saying sexually offensive. Men might probably get turned on by that. I dont think women are extremely comfortable watching that kind of stuff. SG: and then she spawned many others like ilex nalini Disco shanti. SG: Polythene pam Oh,I wasnt aware of polythene pam? SG: many of that sort came up,one film clones. Ok I am thinking of what name I get. SG: Think about it. linen something But linen is very meek. Linen or cotton SG: Ok you think of something. georgette something. But anyway,coming back to the films that you have done. Do you sometimes get overwhelmed by the characters you are playing? Yes it does happen sometimes. Overwhelmed in the sense that the lines sometimes get blurred. Sometimes you are so in it that it is overwhelming. SG: Give me some examples. I remember in Paa,when we were doing the hospital scene,where Auro,Mr Bachchans character,has a stroke,and we know that we are about to lose him,by then I think I had already gone through a short schedule with Mr Bachchan and we had done those scenes of bonding between mother and son,and then suddenly when I saw him on the hospital bed,and he had dozed off,because there was so much make up on him,and in between those shots he was taking those naps. It was such rigorous make-up for him,and there would be times when I would just look at him and that was his death scene. And I would look at him and just be crying. I did not want to be disturbed by anything or anyone for those couple of days that I was doing that. I was completely consumed by that and its draining then. When you are out of it,its very satisfying,but when you are in it,its very draining. SG: and something from Ishqiya Ishqiya (laughs),lets see only the good things. SG: Tell me the good,the bad and the ugly. I think I was a bit,I wouldnt say conservative,but I had never seen myself as someone who could wear her sexuality on her sleeve. With Ishqiya,that was the discovery. I knew I could play any man if I want to (laughs) SG: Have you tried that subsequently in real life (laughs) (laughs) That shall be another interview SG: Two early for two confessions. It doesnt take too much SG: That speaks for itself,generous romantic nature of human male. generously slipperous SG: and gullible. We are using completely different adjectives. SG: I am on my side. You be on yours SG: But still give me an example from Ishqiya. Something that sort of stayed back with you,when you either struggled or thought you would become the character. Ishqiya and even Parinita were two films where I was cast opposite two men and in a strange way romancing both in both films. I used to tell Pradeep Sarkar that in Parinita for example,when I was shooting with Saif,even as a character,on paper when I read it,I would say Oh. I would feel more for Saifs character. When I was shooting with Sanju,there will be more feeling for his character; Similarly in Ishqiya. Its a very strange convoluted thing,not for the actors but for the characters. You suddenly begin to compare and contrast the two. SG: In a mans world view,its manipulative,something that rhymes with witch. (laughs) But we all do this. As human beings,you all compare and contrast. Luckily in life,you dont get too many options or opportunities to do that. SG: What is the nastiest thing somebody said about you when you went through that confused phase in your life? I think someone had once written that with clothes like this,she should not be walking out of her house. She shouldnt be stepping out of home. I think that really hurt. Who talks like that,and it was on one of these fashion portals,and look at what stars are wearing and they have a comment to make,and there were so nasty,and I said no more of this. SG: And then you found Sabyasachi. (laughs) Yes,and then I found Sabyasachi. Its very interesting that a lot of people at that time reassured me to be myself. Sabyasachi ,Balki,my family of course,my parents,my sister,my brother-in -law,they have constantly been unconditionally supportive. I think in terms of my manager,Sanjay,Sabyasachi,and Balki are three other people who have said things to me that have made an impact SG: Who said believe in yourself? Absolutely. Be you . People love you for that. Why are you wanting to be someone else and give it all up. SG: And that was liberating? That was absolutely liberating SG: So are you at peace with yourself? Yes,absolutely SG: One more thing I will say about you is that you are somebody one can see acting in her 50s,and not trying to be 25 Thank you. Thats a huge compliment and I hope that we have very interesting roles for women in their 50s. Meryl Streep does extremely challenging and different roles. SG: Even her rubbishy Hollywood movies have a slot for very strong female roles. I think things are slowly changing here also. Women are not just playing bhabhis and mothers once they are married and so on. I am looking forward to that,in a while from now but (laughs) SG: We will not ask you how much time from now. Vidya,it was brilliant having this conversation with you. I am one of your many many admirers. And thank you and many more conversations. Thank you. Inshallah,Inshallah. Transcribed by Sutirtha Sanyal.
