‘We accept Iran’s right to use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes,but this confrontational approach is not very helpful’

We talked about many issues,including Iran. We talked about the Arab-Israeli dispute,the security situation,about Pakistan and India. Our two countries see eye to eye on all of these issues. It’s a strategic relationship that we want to build. We also talked about ways to counter terrorism. We are fighting the same terrorist: the same terrorist who attacked Mumbai on 26/11 is the terrorist who attacked Spain,Riyadh,New York,London. We talked about how to counter them,and face them and take them out. We talked about our big neighbour,Iran,which is only 250 km from the Bahraini coast. Iran is an important neighbour and we share a lot of history with it. We have many things in common with Iran but we also have differences and problems. We do accept the right of Iran to be a nuclear country and use nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. Nobody denies them that but to put the whole region in danger with this confrontational approach,it’s not very helpful. We are in their immediate neighbourhood and any attack on them will affect us. We want to convince Iran that the only way forward is to cooperate with their neighbourhood and the world and not to cause any problems.

We talked about the Arab-Israeli dispute. President Mahmoud Abbas of Palestine was in Delhi. We have to help this man,he is embattled,and he is trying to realise the dreams of his people to get their own state. They have waited so long for that,they deserve all help. Their Prime Minister,Salam Fayyad,is trying hard to build the capacity of the Palestinian state to make it a country that gains the respect of the world. Terror is undermining him,as is foreign interference. We need to do more to convince Israelis that expanding settlements and talking about Jerusalem as the eternal capital of the people of a certain race and of a certain religion,is unacceptable in the 21st century. This is a world city and it’s for the people who live in it. You cannot exclude people. If you cut things along religious or sectarian or ethnic lines,it will create problems. We do see Israel as part of the Middle East. The late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat is remembered for helping create a peace movement in Israel. We need that type of leadership on the Israeli side to take a real decision for peace.

PRANAB DHAL SAMANTA: Iran has announced that it plans to expand nuclear fuel production and enrichment plants. Did you see this coming?

We definitely saw this coming. There was no indication that Iran was doing otherwise,that Iran was really keen on stopping its enrichment programme. It was expected. We saw the talks of 5+1 (five permanent members of the UN Security Council and Germany) and Iran fail and we felt that part of the failure was that the region was not involved. The 5+1 countries were talking to Iran about the nuclear programme,Iran replied with a whole range of issues including those concerning the neighbourhood. This was done behind our backs. The talks were doomed to fail. We always tell Iran that it is their right to have nuclear power for peaceful purposes and we will support you but transparency is the key. They do have transparency issues with the IAEA. The way forward is definitely not to be belligerent towards them. But we feel that Iran has an obligation under international law to abide by international conventions that they are a signatory to.

SHISHIR GUPTA: Do you believe in good and bad Taliban?

We don’t know the Taliban very well. We know the Taliban as a group that oppressed their people,that brought a reign of terror to their country,who gave refuge to Osama bin Laden,who refused to give him back to Saudi Arabia when Saudi Arabia asked that he be repatriated,we know them as anti-culture and anti-freedom. The Taliban doesn’t represent the Pashtuns,they are a group that happens to be mainly Pashtun. The key to success is to win the Pashtun community,the key to failure is to lose them.

SHISHIR GUPTA: Do you think the engagement of the Taliban is a good step?

I don’t think it is necessarily a good step. You have to engage the people as a whole and win their hearts and let them decide for themselves whether the Taliban are good for them or bad for them.

AMITAV RANJAN: Do the recent developments in Iran affect your negotiations with them for gas supplies?

We have a love-hate relationship with Iran. They are our neighbours and we can’t choose our neighbours. We have to live with them and try to get them to have joint interests with us. If they have joint interests,they will not act in a belligerent way towards their neighbourhood and the world. The problem is that we do need gas. When you talk about gas in the Gulf,you mean Saudi Arabia,Qatar and Iran. Saudi Arabia is currently not able to provide us gas because of their internal needs. Qatar is tied up with their contracts all over the world. That leaves us with Iran and we are very serious about talking to them about it.

AMITAV RANJAN: The tightrope you have to walk is difficult given your worries about Iran’s nuclear ambitions and your need for its gas?

It is not easy. We are trying to see how events develop. We just cannot sit and wait for this conflict to end and then start negotiations about joint projects.

AMITABH SINHA: Bahrain is one of the most liberal countries in the Middle East. How do you maintain that liberal atmosphere?

By being an open,multi-racial,multi-religious,multi-cultural,hospitable society. It’s not easy because the area has changed and moved towards conservatism. First there was the 1979 revolution in Iran and then,there was jehad in Afghanistan–that changed the hearts and minds of our people. Our society was more liberal earlier. If the elections that took place in the last few years and which saw women participate as candidates and as voters,had taken place in the early 70s,when we first became independent,women may have won at least two seats. In the last elections,one woman won because she came from a very small constituency on a very remote island. That’s how things have turned conservative. We are trying hard to maintain our ethos.

COOMI KAPOOR: Bahrain is one of the fastest growing economies in the Middle East. How do you manage that without oil?

Our oil is our people. We are getting into reforming our education,reforming our labour laws. We have the oldest school system since 1919. Oil is not everything. It is our diversified economy,our service economy,our people,you see them working everywhere. That’s our real wealth.

COOMI KAPOOR: Bahrain has the highest literacy rates in the region. How did you manage this before other countries in the region?

We had an agreement in 1821 with the British government for protection and to make sure that piracy doesn’t take place in the Gulf. That relationship brought a lot of cooperation and a lot of help from the British in developing a modern society before the rest of the coast.

Also,from Egypt and Syria,we had a lot of educational teams coming to help us because those were more developed societies at the time. Thus,we developed a modern society that is not nomadic but settled and educated.

SOBHANA K.: France recently banned the veil. How do you react to that?

I am not a fan of the nakaab,it covers the identity. We have to say it’s a matter of choice for the woman but we would like to convince her to be her own person and to show her face.

PRANAB DHAL SAMANTA: As a student,you were a volunteer with Jimmy Carter’s campaign. There is a view in Washington that Barack Obama is Jimmy Carter II. Would you agree?

Jimmy Carter was a president who tried hard and failed but he tried with a good heart to champion human rights issues around the world. He tried to mend fences with Iran and they ended up taking his countrymen as hostages in the embassy. The American economy was doing very badly.

It was the situation around him that did not help him. I think President Obama has his own distinct personality. He has now been around for over a year and he has tried from Day 1. We appreciate what he is doing with the Middle East dispute but it is not easy for him.

He is also trying with his health reform programme. The economic position is so difficult,give him some breathing room. The situation that led to Jimmy Carter’s failure is probably the same as now,but the people are not same.

J.P. YADAV: What are your views on the Kashmir dispute?

One of the issues between India and Pakistan is Kashmir. It’s not the only dispute; there are many others which need to be addressed. What would help the two countries is to get into talks about the many issues. This is your issue,you have to address it. We don’t take a position on it. No third party should come between India and Pakistan on this issue.

SHEKHAR GUPTA: We,in India,believe that the Pakistanis play a game of double nuance with terrorist groups. They deal with the Pakistani Taliban in a certain way: because it’s within the Pakistani state,they go all out against them. They treat the Afghan Taliban in a certain way,hoping to help the Americans strike a deal with them so that they can have a Taliban government influenced by Pakistan. But they treat India-specific terrorist as strategic assets. How do you read these equations?

If I blame Pakistan,it will not be fair. Pakistan is going through an internal struggle: you have the army,you have the government,you have the political parties. Are you sure Pakistan is settled enough to be able to control all of them? I am not sure. I think there are still different elements in Pakistan each of whom has its own agenda. This is a serious problem facing Pakistan. They are going through a struggle that is multi-faceted and multi tracked with different agencies,and different parties and groups doing different things. Give them time.

AMITAV RANJAN: Why don’t you have an equally benevolent attitude towards Iran which is also going through its own internal turmoil?

I am not comparing the stability of the regime of President Ahmedinijad??? and the stability of the government of Pakistan. The government of Pakistan is considerably less stable. Iran’s nuclear programme came before its instability. The instability came only last year.

MANOJ C.G.: Many Gulf countries report the presence of illegal immigrants from India. What is the situation in your country,given that Indians constitute the single largest expatriate population in Bahrain?

We don’t have an issue because we have dealt with it through our labour reform programme. Labour reform has scrapped the sponsorship programme. Earlier,someone had to be sponsored by a local to stay or work in Bahrain. Now,anyone from India or anywhere else who is working in Bahrain can become a free agent by just giving his employer a 30-day notice and leaving for another job. The employer cannot stop him.

RAVISH TIWARI: How do you see events in Iraq?

Iraq is a country that has suffered a lot. It was a very successful country between 1921 and 1958. Then there was a bloody coup d’etat that put the country inside a very dark tunnel. Unfortunately,in the last two or three decades,secularism and liberalism in Iraq were hijacked by the ruthless dictators and people reverted to their religions,sects,ethnic groups,militias. That’s where they are today. They have a democratic process now,but there is a problem: the Baa’th party was not the wrongdoer under Saddam Hussein,it was Hussein himself and his tribe that used to rule in the name of the Baa’th party. Now the Baathists are not allowed to run for election,they are excluded from the system. This doesn’t work. They should be included in the system,they should be given a chance now that Saddam is gone.

DEEPU SEBASTIAN EDMOND: You said India and Pakistan have to sit down and talk,what about Israel and Palestine?

We subscribe to the Arab peace initiative. We are keen to see peace between Israel and the Arab world,especially with Palestine having its own state. We do recognise that there is a country called Israel. We are not there to remove them,or erase them from the map.

SHEKHAR GUPTA: Bahrain was one of the first countries in the Islamic world to accept that.

Most of the countries accept it now,including Syria. It’s there to stay,but we need to have peace. We have to help the Israeli people to get out of this fortress mentality. We need to do enough to show them that there is a real peace camp in the Arab world. We need to convince the Israeli people that they don’t need to bring hardliners to power; they need to bring people who are there for peace.

ALIA ALLANA: Do you think the international community’s response to Iran is balanced? Some countries want sanctions against them,some countries don’t support sanctions. Bahrain doesn’t support sanctions. But Bahrain allows the US to have a missile defence system. Is this not a mixed message to Iran?

We did not say anything about the sanctions. If Iran violates its obligations under international law,then international law has its way of taking action,and we abide by international law. As for the defence system,don’t look at it as something against Iran. This defence agreement is built on decades of cooperation with the US. This is for the benefit of all,including Iran. Iran is safely exporting its oil through the Strait of Hormuz. If it wasn’t for the deployment of the American forces,our gulf would be the same as the Gulf of Aden with pirates stopping ships.

COOMI KAPOOR: When Michael Jackson was being persecuted in the West,Bahrain gave him shelter. How did that happen?

His brother Jermaine Jackson has many friends in Bahrain. Jermaine came to Bahrain years ago because he met Bahrainis in Los Angeles whom he had befriended. He would come to Bahrain once every two-three years. When Michael Jackson got into hot water in California,his brother suggested he come to Bahrain.

HIMANSHI BHARDWAJ: Did he convert to Islam?

Jermaine Jackson converted to Islam. Michael Jackson came and lived,and partied and did not change.

Manoj G C: The free-trade agreement between India and GCC has been in the pipeline for long. How are the talks progressing,and was it discussed in your meeting with the Indians?

Yes,it was discussed and we are keen to see a free trade agreement materialize between India and GCC. It’s going very slow,to tell you the truth. We are not seeing any roadblocks but as with other trade talks,there are many legal issues,export issues,protectionism,etc. We feel it is very important to have this agreement with India now. If we manage to reach an agreement by the end of 2010 or by 2011,we have 40 billion dollars of trade between us. We have been given to understand that India too is keen to see free trade happen.

SHRAVAN SEN: Just because Pakistan has internal problems is that a good enough reason to stall movement on other issues?

Both India and Pakistan agreed to talk. India wants to talk about an immediate issue,and Pakistan wants to talk about everything. So,we have two countries that want to talk. You can do it in phases– phase 1,2,3,and track 1,2,3 simultaneously. You can do it because there is an agreement to talk. Both countries need to find a way how to start the talks,how to structure them. Look at it seriously,but don’t delay.

TEENA THACKER: In the Middle East,countries are known to give stringent punishments when someone is found guilty. What is the punishment for a doctor in a medical negligence case? What are the other health indicators in your country?

I do not know what the punishment for medical negligence is exactly but there is the law that governs all that. There is no eye for an eye,we don’t do that. There are no cruel punishments. Shariah laws cover only personal matters like marriage,death and inheritance.

We have very low mortality rates and the health conditions are very good. When there is an outbreak of something like cholera things are controlled very quickly. In the case of H1N1,we did not have too many cases.

Transcribed by Mandakini Gahlot

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