Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s three-hour podcast with MIT researcher Lex Fridman was released on Wednesday evening, providing a glimpse into the PM’s views on a wide range of subjects, from domestic politics and geopolitics to spirituality. Among the political topics the PM touched on were the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), the 2002 Gujarat riots, the secret of the BJP’s electoral success, and what binds India as a nation. The RSS impact Asked how his relationship with the RSS was, Modi said the organisation has played a role in every aspect of life, be it women, youth or even workers. “In terms of membership size, if I may say so, we have the Indian Labour Union. It has around 50,000 unions with millions of members across the country. Perhaps in terms of scale, there is no bigger labor union in the world. But what’s interesting is the approach they take. Historically, leftist ideologies have fueled labour movements worldwide. And what has been their slogan? ‘Workers of the world unite’. The message was clear. Unite first and then we’ll deal with everything else. But what do the labour unions run by RSS-trained volunteers believe in? They say, ‘Workers unite the world’. It may seem like just a small shift in words, but it represents a huge ideological transformation,” Modi said. Here's my conversation with @narendramodi, Prime Minister of India. It was one of the most moving & powerful conversations and experiences of my life. This episode is fully dubbed into multiple languages including English and Hindi. It's also available in the original (mix of… pic.twitter.com/85yUykwae4 — Lex Fridman (@lexfridman) March 16, 2025 On how he came to join RSS, the PM told Fridman, “Ever since childhood, I always had the habit of staying engaged in something or the other. I remember there was a man named Makoshi. I don’t quite recall his full name. I think he was part of the service group, Makoshi Soni or something like that. He used to carry a small drum-like instrument called the Tambourine with him, and he used to sing patriotic songs in his deep, powerful voice. Whenever he came to our village, he would hold programs in different places. I would run after him like a crazy fan just to listen to his songs. I would spend entire nights listening to their patriotic songs. I enjoyed it. I don’t even know why, but I just did. In our village, there was a branch of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, where we played sports and sang patriotic songs. Something about those songs touched me deeply. They stirred something inside me, and that’s how I eventually became part of the RSS.” Modi said an organisation such as the Sangh was unique, one that “likely doesn’t exist anywhere else in the world”. He added, “Millions of people are connected to it, but understanding RSS is not that simple. One must make an effort to truly grasp the nature of its work. More than anything, the RSS provides you with a clear direction toward what can truly be called a purpose in life. Secondly, the nation is everything, and serving the people is akin to serving God … To my knowledge, they run approximately 125,000 service projects without any government assistance, solely through community support. They spend time there, teach the children, care for their health, instill good values and work towards improving cleanliness in these communities. Running 125,000 social service projects is no small feat.” On the impact the Sangh had on him, the PM said, “Through the RSS, I found a life of purpose. Then I was fortunate to spend some time among the saints, which gave me a strong spiritual foundation. I found discipline and a life of purpose. And through the guidance of saints, I gained spiritual grounding. Swami Atmasthananda and others like him have held my hand throughout my journey, constantly guiding me at every step. The teachings of Ramakrishna Mission, Swami Vivekananda, and the service-driven philosophy of the RSS have played a crucial role in shaping me.” On the Gujarat riots On the 2002 Gujarat riots, which took place when he was the Chief Minister, Modi said the narrative that the riots were the biggest the state had seen was “misinformation”. Modi said Gujarat had seen “frequent riots before 2002”. “Curfews were constantly being imposed somewhere. Communal violence could erupt over trivial issues, like kite flying contests or even minor bicycle collisions. Before 2002, Gujarat witnessed over 250 significant riots. The riots in 1969 lasted nearly six months. So there was a long history, long before I was in the picture,” he said. Saying that the “one tragic incident became a sparking point that led some people to violence,” the PM slammed his political rivals. “The judiciary thoroughly investigated the matter. At that time, our political opponents were in power, and naturally they wanted all allegations against us to stick. Despite their relentless efforts, the judiciary analysed the situation meticulously twice and ultimately found us completely innocent… Our approach has always been to avoid vote bank politics. Instead, our mantra has been, together with everyone, development for all, trust from all, and efforts by everyone. We’ve shifted away from the politics of appeasement to the politics of aspiration. And today, Gujarat is actively contributing toward building a developed India as well,” he said. Modi said the global situation leading to the communal violence in Gujarat was "extremely volatile", mentioning the 1999 Kandahar hijacking, the 2000 attack on the Red Fort, the 9/11 attack, and the attack on the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly and Parliament, also in 2001, in detail. "On February 24, 2002, I became a state representative, an elected representative for the first time. And it was only around February 24th, 25th, or 26th that I stepped into the Gujarat Assembly for the very first time. On February 27th, 2002, we were seated in the Assembly for the budget session. And that same day, it had been just three days since I’d become a state representative, when suddenly the horrific Godhra incident occurred. It was a tragedy of unimaginable magnitude, people were burned alive. You can imagine, against the backdrop of incidents like the Kandahar hijacking, the attack on parliament, or even 9/11, and then to have so many people killed and burned alive, you can imagine how tense and volatile the situation was. Of course, this was tragic for everyone. Everyone prefers peace," Why BJP is so successful Asked about how the BJP has managed to win election after election, the PM attributed it to his previous experience of organisational work, management of elections and strategising campaigns. “I try to fulfill the sacred duty entrusted to me by the people I revere as divine. I remain committed to honoring their trust, ensuring it never falters. And they see me for what I truly am. My government is committed to ensuring welfare schemes reach every citizen. Every scheme must reach its intended beneficiaries. Every beneficiary must be treated equally. No one should face discrimination on caste, creed, faith, wealth, or ideology. We must strive to ensure the well-being and prosperity of everyone. This way, even those not directly benefiting, never feel left out or treated unfairly. They find comfort in knowing they too will benefit in due course. This fosters a deep sense of trust, and trust is the cornerstone of my governance model,” he said. Elaborating on his success, Modi said his governance is rooted in the people and not the polls and is committed to the well-being of citizens and the greater good of the nation. “.Like a devoted priest, my heart is set on serving the people. I don’t distance myself from the people. I live among them as one of them. And I tell everyone I work with, if you work hard, I will work harder. People see this and it builds trust. Besides, I have no conflicts of interest. I have no friends or relatives who stand to gain from the position I hold. The common man appreciates this lack of vested interests, and that’s probably just one reason why,” he said. Modi also credited his success to a party “with millions of dedicated workers who are completely devoted to the welfare of India and its citizens”. The idea of India When Fridman asked what was the foundational idea behind India as a nation, the PM said, “India is a cultural identity. It is a civilisation that dates back thousands of years. Consider the vastness of India, over 100 languages, thousands of dialects. India is so diverse that we have a saying that every 20 miles, the language changes, customs change, cuisine changes, even clothing styles shift from region to region. From the south to the north, you will see immense diversity across the country. But if you dig a little deeper, you will find a common thread. For example, the stories of Lord Ram can be heard everywhere in India. His name echoes in every corner of the country. But if you look closely from Tamil Nadu to Jammu and Kashmir, you will always find people whose names include Ram in some form. In Gujarat, he might be called Rambhai. In Tamil Nadu, Ramachandra, and in Maharashtra, Rambhau. This unique cultural bond is what unites India as one civilisation.”
